Deus Ex devs say they weren't trying to make a statement when they made one of the most political games of all time: 'What I think is the right future for humanity is irrelevant. It's all about...'

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• Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It, like most games of the era, followed the rule of cool. As such, it references a ton of similarly themed media. A lot of which was cyberpunk, conspiracy theories, and general sci-fi. All the unique ideas in the game are really just in the game part. The story and all that is almost all entirely lifted from other sources. So it makes sense to me that they didn’t project their own message into the game. It doesn’t say anything the media that inspired it hadn’t already said.

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• NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Honestly? I believe it. It was just a huge hodge podge of conspiracy theories and activist/terrorist groups that folk had vaguely heard about that would never have worked together. And said conspiracy theories tended to have a VERY fragile basis in reality. But also… shit like FEMA being an evil organization that is giving us all a plague has totally been a conspiracy theory for as long as FEMA existed… and just as questionable for why FEMA would be the org doing that.

  It is similar to how… based on a lot of the references he has used and his comments in interviews, I 100% believe that Kojima mostly wrote the MGSes apolitically. I firmly believe someone on his team actually cared, but those games are mostly just a bunch of action movie tropes (or outright scenes) combined with a very surface level understanding of nuclear weapons and reading encyclopedia articles to sound smart.

  Stuff like this always makes me think we need a “poe’s law but for politics”. And it always reminds me of Austin “Papa Bear” Walker shitposting in the Remap twitch chat during one of the keighleys. Trailer for the Call of Duty where you are fighting for The Gipper (?) and invading Generic Middle Eastern Country and blowing shit up for US interests and Austin just said (paraphrasing) “if I were in charge of marketing it would be this exact same trailer but you would know I was angry about it”.

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  • Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Idk if Kojima truly made MGS with no politics in mind. He kinda predicted a lot of reality of the past few years with 2 and 4.

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    • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That is one of those tell me without telling me deals.

      All the “ai will take over a post truth society” bits and the focus on mercenaries was all over sci fi for decades by that point and a lot of the former goes back to a mix of the Frankenstein complex (which is literally creation myths) and the Reagan Nixon debate.

      It is why there is so much truth in the torture Nexus memes.

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  • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I don’t believe it, or rather, I think Warren Spector and Ricardo Bare really didn’t intend for it to be political, as both of them were far more focused on the game parts of Deus Ex; the mechanics, the balancing, the level design, etc, and are seemingly oblivious to how the writers took those puzzle pieces and made it political. Though the extent that Warren and Ricardo are completely unaware of that fact seems unlikely, and instead they almost appear to be whitewashing what the writers intended?

    It’s very odd that this article didn’t interview the lead writer of Deus Ex, Sheldon Pacotti, for an article about the politics of the game. Sheldon absolutely intended for it to be political, and in this interview here even goes into how capital is used to exploit and suppress the working class, which is what leads to radical terrorist groups working against the rich capital class. He mentions in the first part of that interview series how the designers would create the levels without any concept for a story (citing the blown up statue of liberty as an example, which the level designer just thought would be an arresting sight to the player, but didn’t consider how it would tie into a wider narrative).

    I still just can’t get over how much those two downplay the incredible achievement that is Deus Ex’s leftist political stances and narrative, which to this day set it apart from any other title.

    Also @Coelacanth@aggregatet.org & @paultimate14@lemmy.world

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  • Coelacanth@aggregatet.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah, I believe Warren Spector has said before that the premise of Deus Ex was literally “what it every conspiracy theory was true”, and not really anything deeper than that.

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  • paultimate14@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I think of that with BioShock 1 and Infinite too. Rapture was an atheist society while Colombia was highly religious. Colombia was highly centralized and regulated by an authoritarian dictator, while Rapture is deregulated and allows private businesses to run wild and cause chaos. It’s almost as if BioShock Infinite was written as a counterpoint, to clarify that the first game was not meant to be political.

    I suppose you could say both games are criticizing extremism, which combine to form a centrist message. But even that I think was less of a choice to discuss politics and moreso just “We need conflict to create an interesting videogame. What’s a good way to create conflict? Just take some political views and crank them up to the extreme- surely no one will sympathize with them then!”

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    • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Today centrism is the more extreme type of political leanings.

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• solsangraal@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  in my late teens/early 20s this game made me aware of more conspiracy theories than i even imagined possible, and i loved it. amazing game. pretty cutting edge at the time, but it aged poorly gameplay-wise. none of the sequels came close for me. i’d buy a well-done faithful remake of this in a heartbeat

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  • Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I am just curious, what makes you say it has aged poorly in terms of gameplay? I would argue it holds up pretty well, but I am also a PC/KB+M only player. I strongly dislike UI/UX that has been compromised (from my perspective) for consoles/controllers.

    Agreed regarding the sequels (haven’t played the fourth one, just the 2nd and 3rd sequel); they are OK, but not that special.

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    • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’ve made multiple attempts to finish Deus Ex over the years after giving up each time due to aspects of the gameplay. I would normallynever give a game so many shots, but I love so many aspects of Deus Ex, I want to finish it, but I just can’t push myself to continue at certain points.

      I think the biggest blockers for me is I love stealth games (thief 1 & 2 are all time favorites), and since Deus Ex does have a stealth system (though primitive), I tried to play it like a stealth game. a vanilla install means that tranq darts make enemies run around like headless chickens for a minute, and knocking people out with the baton people is unreliable. Combined, stealthing is both visually comical, and realistically very frustrating to play.

      I could deal with that, and I’ve tried switching it up by going more guns blazing, but the gunplay of Deus Ex is just as clunky, with slow firing weapons that deal little damage on fairly bullet spongy enemies. Combat just doesn’t feel good.

      I tried mods and overhauls to see if I could rectify either of those points, which do sorta work as a bandaid. GMDX makes stealth WAY more fun by making headshots with darts work instantly, and baton-ing more reliable. With it, I was able to get all the way to France without quitting, but I think due to GMDX, I hit a massive difficulty spike where my stealth build became much less viable, and it once again just became frustrating. Perhaps a gun-build with GMDX would’ve been the winning combo.

      I think my best experience was with the Revision overhaul, but by then I had started the game over so many times over so many years, I just didn’t have the appetite to get all the way back to France.

      It’s a truly spectacular game in terms of story and open-ended level design, but the mechanics really are a turn-off. I wish my first playthrough had been with the Revision overhaul (though I wish it didn’t radically change the level design so much), but even still, I think it would benefit from a Nightdive style remake.

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    • solsangraal@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      i’m also a KB/M player, and to be honest it’s been several (many…? i don’t remember when) years since i’ve tried OG deus ex 1, and remember thinking damn this seems like a chore.

      i might just need to give it another shot, with full awareness i’ll never get the same experience of playing through for the first time.

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    • darthelmet@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      A while ago I tried it out and I can concur on it feeling clunky. To each their own, but I just have a fairly low tolerance for games not feeling smooth to play. There are a lot of games I’ve dropped in less than an hour because it just didn’t feel good to play even if I might have liked some of the ideas or systems.

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    • Coelacanth@aggregatet.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I just finished Mankind Divided earlier this month. I think it has higher highs than Human Revolution but suffers from being the planned “middle game” in the trilogy. It has better gameplay than HR, some great levels and some really good side quests. Also a really well executed apartheid theme that played out really well.

      I definitely recommend you playing it. It’s not gonna be OG Deus Ex, but it’s a good game.

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• MajinBlayze@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The most gamer of all gamer moments

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