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Electronic devices or 'signal jammers' used in car thefts to be banned

⁨133⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨mettwurstkaninchen@feddit.org⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2046qlwzz3o

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Comments

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  • jordanlund@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’m sure the people stealing cars will be right on that…

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    • FauxLiving@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Next they’ll ban stealing cars

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      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        As long as I can download one, I’m happy.

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    • Nollij@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I won’t speak to how the UK does things, but in the US this would make for an easier criminal charge.

      It can be difficult to prove that someone stole (or is about to steal) a car, or broke in to steal the contents. This is especially true if they weren’t apprehended in or with the vehicle itself. But if they are arrested on suspicion, and one of these devices is found on them, they can very easily be prosecuted for possession of criminal tools. It’s similar to how we normies can’t legally own a lockpicking kit unless we’re locksmiths.

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      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        That doesn’t make it okay.

        And you can’t own lock picking tools? Like, buying from this website is illegal? That’s ridiculous!!

        I can, and it’s incredibly useful to DIY access locked doors in my house. I’m not calling a locksmith unless I can’t figure it out, because that’s expensive.

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      • Pika@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I was on board with your post until the last line.

        However in the majority of the US it’s perfectly legal to own lock picking tools as long as you’re not using it for malicious intent, there’s only four states in the US that has restrictions on them similar to what you describe, those states are Mississippi where if it’s concealed / you don’t tell them that you have the pick and they find it on their own, you have to provide counter evidence in court of why it wasn’t you; and Nevada, Ohio and Virginia which states you must provide evidence directly countering the claim.

        All states have it legal to own and use the tools, it just those four states have increased regulations on the tools that make it harder to defend in court if you’re caught out in public near a crime with them

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  • swizzlestick@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Typical BBC reporting of anything technical.

    Keyless repeaters and signal amplifiers scramble the signal from remote key fobs inside people’s homes, enabling criminals to unlock cars.

    No, they don’t. The situation described is a relay attack on keyless entry/start. Jamming is used in a two stage attack, where the device intercepts the first signal and stores it without allowing the car to ‘see’ it by jamming. The user then tries a second time.

    This time the signal is intercepted the same way, and the first signal is played back to the car from the device. The second signal is stored and can be replayed later to bypass a rolling code setup.

    It’s very niche and the stored signal quickly becomes obsolete anyway.

    Sophisticated electronic devices used by criminals to steal cars are set to be banned

    Making or selling a signal jammer could lead to up to five years

    Jenny Simms said the possession, manufacture, sale and supply of signal jammers had provided an “easily accessible tool for criminals… for far too long”.

    These devices have no legitimate purpose

    Basically, fuck you if you happen to have or build a Software Defined Radio (SDR). Again with the UK ‘clamping down’ on something that does have plenty of legitimate use.

    I use an F0 for toying with my own equipment, as an interface for my smart devices and as a general purpose keyfob. I may be arrested just for possessing it.

    The crims will not care a jot and this only serves to restrict/annoy legitimate users.

    The fault and solution lies with the manufacturers who implement insecure tech, and with the users who blindly sacrifice pounds of security for ounces of convenience.

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    • cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      An SDR is not a signal jammer and the flipper zero can’t clone a rolling code remote.

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      • swizzlestick@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        An SDR can be made to jam, even if that is not the normal purpose. Just like a kitchen knife can be used to murder people, instead of its normal culinary purpose.

        Of course an F0 can’t clone a rolling code as-is. I never said it could. But it can harvest and replay a single or multiple consecutive codes just fine, providing the original key is not used in the meantime. Only need physical access to the key while it is out of range of the vehicle.

        This alone puts the F0 on dangerous ground as an “electronic device (such as a signal jammer) for use in theft of a vehicle or theft of anything in a vehicle”

        People have locked out their original keys by messing with this before.

        The point is that our laws are reactionary, vague, and open to too much interpretation.

        If someone gets shit stolen out their car and I happen to be nearby, then I will become suspect merely through possession. Even without intent.

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  • RobotToaster@mander.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    And nothing will be done about cars being sold with faulty security. We had methods of preventing these attacks in the last millennium.

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  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    So, only criminals will have them?

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  • FellowEnt@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    “These devices have no legitimate purpose, apart from assisting in criminal activity, and reducing their availability will support policing and industry in preventing vehicle theft which is damaging to both individuals and businesses.” She added

    Yeah how about fuck off with this nonsense.

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  • grue@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Like banning kitchen knives because somebody got stabbed with one once.

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    • ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      More like banning USB sticks because between 2011 and 2021 KIA and Hyundai removed engine immobilizers from their car designs to save a few dollars which allowed their cars to be started by turning the ignition with literally anything.

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      • Nollij@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Not removed - never added to the US designs. They were added afterwards to models being sold in places that require them.

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      • Rin@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        If your car gets stolen, get a new one!

        Image

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  • webghost0101@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    So now only criminals will be able to steal peoples cars. Well done.

    They wont even be banned (which would be stupid) Its on the owner to proof they have it for legitimate reasons. The end result will mean the devices will be more hidden in everyday seeming devices. And if they do eventually ban them fully that legal local technological knowledge will be dragging behind criminal innovation.

    You want these devices out there to increase awareness of their existence and to pressure manufacturer to make their devices more safe.

    Example: Remember how Tesla can remote (un)lock cars? Exploit waiting to happen and the potential ban on encryption is going to make it so much worse.

    Ostrich politics.

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  • regrub@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The article seems very non-technical. From what I read about the Flipper Zero, Playback attacks aren’t supposed to work on modern cars that use rolling codes. The only way the attack can work is if you intercept the signal from the keyfob while also preventing the keyfob’s signal from reaching the car. Much easier said than done.

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    • swizzlestick@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Grab some keys out a bag in the office while the owner isn’t looking.

      Grab a code (it’s out of vehicle range, being inside).

      Go to the car park, replay the code and loot the car.

      You’d be caught quickly, but it’s doable.

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  • KeenFlame@feddit.nu ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Hahaha it’s so nice to read why? And it’s because of crime. Huh? I ask why ban these. They say again crime. I go ah like guns then. Like you ban the engines of death not used in hunting ever but used to mow down kids in schools at an alarming rate? No? Ah. What do you mean then? Oh. You are saying there’s legitimate use for an extended mag uzi that says kill kids on the side. But not something that can emit fm waves or whatever. Not the tech we use for literally all kind of wireless communications. Because why again? Because only the people that work with these things should have them? Oh so you mean the police and military should have assault rifles… Oh. No okay the child slaying stays, the electromagnetic hacker devices are satanic. Got it. Yeah I’ll get right on that.

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    • _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Tell me you didn’t read the article without telling me you didn’t read the article.

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      • KeenFlame@feddit.nu ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Why?

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  • Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    As if that would stop them. The problems are at this side, it is the complete ignorance and disregard of operational security in the automotive industry.

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  • AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    All these new police powers, but do we even have enough police to use them? Lmao

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