I don’t understand why it’s so mainstream to equate Palestine with Hamas
Decades of Islamophobic propaganda combined with a strong American economic interest in Israel might have played a role.
Comment on Microsoft is reportedly banning Palestinians in the U.S. for life for calling relatives in Gaza
maxenmajs@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I don’t understand why it’s so mainstream to equate Palestine with Hamas. It’s as if there is an actual conspiracy going on to to support this genocide. Is it because it’s so easy to say you’re antiemetic if you oppose “the Jews”?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Basically we spent 20 years fighting “terrorists”. So now it’s really easy to paint one side or the other as the “terrorists”. And thanks to Islamophobia pushed by mainstream TV shows and Movies, if you get painted as a “terrorist” then everyone in your country is also a “terrorist”.
The word is in quotes because very few of the groups fought by regular forces (regular infantry as opposed to special operations) were actually international militant NGOs like Al Qaeda. Mostly they were local militias mad at the coalition forces for their own reasons, like “Why did you kill my kid in an airstrike!?!”, or “I like the Taliban because they pay me really good for the poppy you torched. Also, you torched my livelihood in a country that has no safeguards against starving to death.” And even the Taliban, ridiculously evil bastards that they are, were never an AQ like group. They were concerned solely with taking back Afghanistan.
All of this nuance was lost on anyone who didn’t read the actual reports coming out of these countries though and many of those reports were classified. So all most people got was their favorite action and/or police drama shoveling the idea that all muslims are terrorists. With a side of Fox News villifying any brown people they could find.
So now, Israel walks in, sees all this, screams “terrorist!” and shoots the nearest Gazan kid. Predictable results were predicted many times by academic scholars.
Snowflake@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Do you ignore the majority of Palestinians support Hamas? It’s factual reality the majority of Palestinians democratically voted and elected Hamas which ran on a destroy Israel agenda. In reality they asked and started this war due to that election. It’s not because it’s so easy to say they are antisemitic it’s because it is factually correct to say it.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Every sentence in your comment is another israeli propaganda lie congrats on a new record.
Snowflake@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
From river to sea, right? They can’t even make it past the river though.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
So all Americans are dickheads because Trump won democratically in 2016?
atrielienz@lemmy.world 4 months ago
What if you changed that statement to all conservatives instead of all Americans? Because not all conservatives support Trump or voted for him in 2016. But he is now representative of them.
Like. Hamas wouldn’t exist without the actions of Israel. And that is exactly why so many Palestinians have thrown their support behind Hamas. But that doesn’t mean Palestinians, Hamas, or even conservative Americans are a monolith.
The point is rather that the group is being labeled in such a way to discredit efforts to give Palestinians the human rights everyone should have. It’s the same thing that happened with the Black Community in the US and the black Panthers. This has been a thing for centuries with just about every grass roots or guerilla militia in existence. At some point if you buck the ruling classes power, you become a target and the propaganda follows.
ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
I don’t know why you replied to me.
I agree with you is impossible to say ALL people from a country is something based on who wins a election. Sometimes the winning candidate doesn’t have the majority if you count the opposition + people who do not vote.
My original comment is sarcastic, it seems that I need to add /s to be clear.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 months ago
Do you ignore the majority of Palestinians support Hamas?
Imagine supporting the only viable resistance organization when you're subjected to a slow-burn genocide. The humanity!
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
They didn’t actually support Hamas in 2023, until Israel bombed them into the stone age and supported shifted. Which is the same phenomenon we’ve seen in every war with a massive bombing campaign since 1936. They did vote democratically, and that vote was blocked by Israel and the US. The platform though was a moderate one in which they drew a line between Israel and people. They very much want to destroy the country but they believe they can live with the people as long as there’s not an apartheid power structure. A line they still have in their doctrine today, a line people like you blithely ignore. Also that election was nearly 20 years ago. Are you admitting that Hamas and Israel were already at war? Usually the party line is there was peace and doves and olive trees until the barbarous Hamas blew it all up. And the people in Hamas are also semites. They are literally semites.
bamboo@lemm.ee 4 months ago
This guy answered “what would you do?” with “enthusiastically support the Nazis”
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I don’t understand why it’s so mainstream to equate Palestine with Hamas.
Because the mainstream is unironically ignorant of the true political and social state of Palestinian society. They don’t realise that Hamas is an extremist Palestinian political party, while the actual moderate Palestinian faction worthy of support is the Palestinian Liberation Organisation. Show them this Wikipedia page of the ongoing civil war among Palestinians and you’d get cricket noises from the average perpetually online mainstream.
Gaza is controlled by the Hamas, while the West Bank is controlled by PLO/Fatah. But no one in the mainstream in the Twiterrati, Facebook and other social media will know that, because they get junk food information from fake news and propaganda or their own bubble in those social platforms.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 months ago
The PLO isn't worth supporting at all. It's worth tearing down and starting over.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The PLO was voted out in Gaza because they were nothing but Israeli puppets. They actually lost the entire election, but Israel and the US blocked Hamas from taking control of the government in West Bank too. And now there’s this narrative that Hamas violently seized power without acknowledging that there was an election and the result was not honored without that seizure.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Many Palestinian protests have people cosplaying Hamas and waving Hamas flags.
Hanging out with people that like to dress up as a member of a group that wants to kill Jews makes someone a little antisemitic I think.
Denying that there’s an antisemitism problem in the Palestinian movement doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. In fact that’s the sort of attitude that allows it to persist.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 months ago
Denying that there's an antisemitism problem in the Palestinian movement doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Uh... Did you expect them to not be antisemitic. I mean it's not a good thing but what other outcome did you expect from 75 years of Apartheid and genocide?
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Please point to where the anti Israeli movement hates All Arab and Hebrew speakers?
Jews are not the only semites and yes everything I’ve seen in the US is directed at the country, not the people.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 months ago
Jews are not the only semites
Okay this only really works as a gotcha. It doesn't do anything to address the point being made. That aside,
Please point to where the anti Israeli movement hates All Arab and Hebrew speakers?
I misread their comment and thought they were talking about Palestinian resistance in Palestine, not the worldwide Anti-Zionist movement so nevermind anything I said up there.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s completely normalized racism. America has been institutionalizing Islamophobia for years to justify their invasions of the middle east where we killed millions of
innocent civilians“terorrists”UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 months ago
www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/…/7644/
Early in 2001, the commission presented a report to the incoming G.W. Bush administration warning that terrorism would be the nation’s greatest national security problem, and saying that unless the United States took proper protective measures a terrorist attack was likely within its borders. Neither the president nor the vice president nor any other senior official from the new administration took time to meet with the commission members or hear about their findings.
The commission had 14 members, split 7-7, Republican and Democrat, as is de rigeur for bodies of this type. Today Hart told me that in the first few meetings, commission members would go around the room and volunteer their ideas about the nation’s greatest vulnerabilities, most urgent needs, and so on.
At the first meeting, one Republican woman on the commission said that the overwhelming threat was from China. Sooner or later the U.S. would end up in a military showdown with the Chinese Communists. There was no avoiding it, and we would only make ourselves weaker by waiting. No one else spoke up in support.
The same thing happened at the second meeting – discussion from other commissioners about terrorism, nuclear proliferation, anarchy of failed states, etc, and then this one woman warning about the looming Chinese menace. And the third meeting too. Perhaps more.
Finally, in frustration, this woman left the commission.
“Her name was Lynne Cheney,” Hart said. “I am convinced that if it had not been for 9/11, we would be in a military showdown with China today.” Not because of what China was doing, threatening, or intending, he made clear, but because of the assumptions the Administration brought with it when taking office. (My impression is that Chinese leaders know this too, which is why there are relatively few complaints from China about the Iraq war. They know that it got the U.S. off China’s back!)
HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world 4 months ago
So what you’re saying is Lynne Cheney has been wrong for 23 years so far.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Plenty of folks on here have bought into the China Boogeyman narrative. Her family’s propaganda has been devastatingly effective. We likely will be at war with China in another generation, given our current trajectory.
ShepherdPie@midwest.social 4 months ago
I don’t understand the overarching point of this comment.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Military Industrial Complex needs to be fed.
Snowflake@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Without America the Palestine people would have starved to death years ago. Their own Arabian brothers won’t even help them. America doesn’t need to institionalize islamaphobia when they do it themselves. You can look into any Islam media and you would find they actively burn u.s. flags on state media and call for our destruction. Nothing was needed to justify your made up war crimes in any of those countries because they all started the wars. Japan bombed pearl harbor. North Korea invaded South Korea. Vietnam Gulf of tonkin. Etc etc.
BigLgame@lemy.lol 4 months ago
Lol fuck off with that hard angle, also the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The fun thing with Tonkin is it doesn’t even need to be a false flag, it can credibly be explained by a bad radar return. I don’t know which is is a worse basis to get 400,000 Americans Killed? (Including Agent Orange and Suicide numbers)
ashar@infosec.pub 4 months ago
Haha that was funny. Mentioning the Gulf of Tonkin incident as justification for war and really meaning it
bamboo@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Without America, Palestine would be united and free by now. A single multicultural country from the river to the sea that can recognize and celebrate its diverse people and history. Instead though we have a genocidal European colony.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Iran won’t help Palestine, but also Iran is the shadowy hand behind Hamas.
Egypt won’t help Palestine, but the CIA/MI5 need to coup the elected government every decade or three when it gets to Muslim Brotherhood-y.
Lebanon won’t help Palestine, but Israel says there are tunnels into Gaza from Lebanon so they need to start bombing again.
Turkyie won’t help Palestine, but the IDF had to murder Turkish aid workers in 2010 to prevent their aid flotilla from reaching the shore.
Billy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
So Palestinians are Hamas?
Why is Iran not helping Fatah?
Their support of Hamas is on ideological grounds. Similarly to Qatar’s reason for funding Hamas. Israel is holy waqf land that belongs to Muslims and should be cleansed from Jews.
Russia is also helping them out with weapons.
Even when Egypt had sovereignty over Gaza they made sure to prevent Palestinians from going to Egypt.
Tunnels from Lebanon… to Gaza…? Where’d you read that?
Hezbollah begun bombing Israel in support of Hamas. They’re also funded by Iran (much more than Hamas though).
Meanwhile Palestinians live in camps in Lebanon. Some of those walled and surrounded by watchtowers.
They have less rights there than anyone else (including refugees and migrant workers), despite living there for 3 generations at this point.
Turkey under Erdogan has been mostly hosting Hamas leaders while bombing Kurds in Syria.
I don’t think much needs to be said about Assad.
The only country in the area which actually helped Palestinians was Jordan. Although that also changed for a while after Black September.
Most of UNRWA’s funding over the years has come from the EU and USA.
Snowflake@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Your point being what? That they fund Hamas so they’re helping?
Somehow Egypt helps them by having secret govt backed coups? Instead they could have just taken in refugees but why would they do that? They’ll just have a coup instead.
So Lebanon helps the Palestine people by building tunnels where Hamas stored weapons and hostages?
prole@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
LO-fuckin-L at using Gulf of Tonkin, a well known false flag operation meant solely to draw the US into a protracted conflict we had no business being in. 🤡
Snowflake@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I mean sure maybe the August 4th incident was overblown but the August 2nd 1964 incident did happen where our ship was attacked by Vietnam torpedo boats. Maybe you get attacked and don’t do shit at all about it who is the real clown there?
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 months ago
Well yes. Do you have any idea how much US neo-colonialism has harmed the Middle East over the past 70 years? Your country supports ISIS for fuck's sake go touch some grass.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You heard it here first folks, war crimes don’t exist if they burn your flag!