shown that the term tends to be used to refer to Jews and Israelis, with dehumanising comparisons, calls to harm, or denials of existence,"
This is not confusing the two - this is specifically targeting anti-semitism
Comment on Meta to broaden hate speech policy to remove more posts targeting 'Zionists'
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Conflating Jews and Zionists is obligatory for Mark “Donated $125.000 to Zaka” Zuckerberg.
Also denial of the existence of israel is now forbidden in Germany and on Meta platforms. Free speech btw.
daddyjones@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
No this is banning criticism of israel along with it. Using Judaism as a shield for Zionazis.
If they wanted to ban antisemitism they would not have included the word Zionist.
daddyjones@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You think that dehumanising, calling for harm or denials of Jewish existence aren’t anti-semitism?
admin@lemmy.my-box.dev 4 months ago
I’m not fully up to date on the details of these, but I was under the understanding that the whole zionism thing was just a racist conspiracy theory regarding a secret society of Jews controlling whatever.
In that case, isn’t the term inherently antisemitic, or are there also non-Jewish zionist theories?
Canary9341@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
Where did you read something like that? Originally it was about the creation of a jewish state, nowadays it’s just for israeli nationalism.
alyqz@lemmy.sdf.org 4 months ago
Zionism is a nationalist movement for the support of a Jewish state. Throughout history different people have had different justifications for the need for a Jewish state, some of them antisemitic. It is worth noting that not all Jews are Zionists and non Jews can be considered Zionists.
As the stated goal is the creation of an ethno-state and thus the exclusion of other groups, racism tends to be implicit for many. Since the creation of an ethno-state likely requires the removal of of the current inhabitants, some pretty despicable actions get justified.
It is important to note that many of the most outspoken anti-Zionists have always been Jews. It’s from these that I have often heard the argument that conflating all Jews with Zionism/the state of Israel puts Jews everywhere at risk of getting blamed/punished for the actions of the state of Israel.
Many extremist Christians support the Zionist movement out of either the desire to remove Jews from their country or because they want all of them to return to Israel so that the rapture/end of the word can be realized. Some extremist Christian groups are literally doomsday cults kinda explaining their lack of care for the future…I mean why worry when the end times are nigh.
The US, and much of the west, show unyielding support for the state of Israel and by extension Zionism for several reasons, chiefly geopolitical in nature (oil). Other reasons include racism towards the other peoples of the region, the antisemitism described above, shame over the Holocaust (the Allies all showed some compliancy with it at least in the beginning…antisemitism has deep roots in western culture), and the fact that confronting the wrong of the colonial project of Israel means confronting their own colonial pasts…and often presents.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
gedaliyah@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That is exactly it. Antisemites figured out a while back that they could say whatever they want about Jews as long as they swap out the word Zionist. This has been a feature of white supremacy for ages. It used to be “people with big noses” or “people who wear hats” or even “bankers,” or “globalists.” The latter two are more similar to the use of “Zionist” because they represent actual groups that people criticize. That gives more cover to the actual antisemites.
This is actually a good thing, because it removes that cover from bigots who want to hijack the movement and hide behind it.
tjsauce@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Isn’t it incredibly dangerous to ban “Zionist” only because it’s misused? It can be used to legitimately describe people who have a vested interest in Isreal occupying Palestine. I understand it’s used as a slur, but banning otherwise normal words will make the discourse much more difficult.
gedaliyah@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Who said anything about banning it? You can read the full statement here. As I said, this is about bigots co-opting the word to say bigoted shit, taking into account the nuance of how a word can be used or misused. Literally no one other than propagandists are talking about Meta “banning” the word.
We do not allow content that attacks people on the basis of protected characteristics such as nationality, race, or religion, among others. We do allow people to criticize adherents of political affiliations and ideologies.
MajinBlayze@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Denial of Israel as in saying it doesn’t exist, or that it shouldn’t?
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
MajinBlayze@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Pretending the state of Israel isn’t a form of regional power doesn’t make it go away.
Don’t get me wrong, Israel has shown time and again that it does not deserve that power and must be dismantled. But that doesn’t sound like what the law is talking about.
Maybe I’m being overly pedantic about the language in use
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
To be clear I’m talking about the government form of one single state and calling it Palestine, Not booting out everyone living there.
Israel could be recognized as a country. In fact Palestinians have presented a two state solution for mutual recognition. If israel accepts it, it will become a country. Even Hamas has said to be open to this
Palestinians have the right to recognize israel as a country as they have stolen their land. We do not have that right.
cygnus@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Maybe it’s just me, but calling for the eradication of a country is bad (controversial take, I know)
Flyswat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
Zionists are not following Judaism. If you ask jewish people living in occupied Palestine they’ll tell you they are in exile and are not allowed to have their country until the arrival of the Messiah, that they are simply living in that land that belongs to whoever ot belonged to.
Zionists om the other hand are imperialist colonisers who took the land from its owners. So asking for the land to return to its rightful owners is legitimate, and this translates to the end of the existance of the state created on wrongfully seized land.
This should not be conflated with eradicating the people. The people could live there with the local Muslims, Christians and Jews as they did before. Although I know we don’t live in a fairy tale. If the occupying state is dismantled, how can one live peacefully with the people who tortured you, your family and society for decades and made your life hell…
Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That’s a tiny minority sect of Jews in Israel, a majority of jews in Israel support the existence of Israel, that’s why they’re there.
A majority of Jews in the U.S. and globally also support the existence of Israel.
Flyswat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
I’ll edit the link to mention these are orthodox jews who were interviewed.
I didn’t know how few are the Jews who actually heed their religion.
To be noted regarding Pew’s poll is that the number of those who believe that the land was promised to the Jews does not say whether they believe they should be owning it now or it shall only become theirs once the Messiah comes.
WanderingVentra@lemm.ee 4 months ago
South Africa pulled it off. But yes, it basically required dismantling the state completely from what it was. South Africa as it existed before and after apartheid are essentially different states with the same name. They got a new Constitution and everything. They still have a lot of problems with the white population having a majority of the land and money, but there’s nowhere near the violence there was beforehand. Everyone mostly lives in peace together now. It can be done.
0x0@programming.dev 4 months ago
So, per your words, jewish people are zionists who use religion as an excuse to occupy a land that is not theirs (and keep expanding with more settlers every chance they get). Also, isn’t israel supposed to be their god given country? Why would they leave?
Flyswat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
No, what I said is that Zionism opposes Judaism. Zionists seemingly are not religious but twist what the religion says to enact their colonial goals.
0x0@programming.dev 4 months ago
So, per your words, jewish people are zionists who use religion as an excuse to occupy a land that is not theirs (and keep expanding with more settlers every chance they get). Also, isn’t israel supposed to be their god given country? Why would they leave?
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yes everyone should recognize Palestine.
cygnus@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
I agree, but not a Palestine that occupies 100% of Israel.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Israel does not exist.
If israel wants to exist it can accept a two state solution with Palestine right now.
You do not get to decide whether a colony is a country. The natives do.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 4 months ago
Calling for the eradication of a religious ethnostate that engages in genocide and colonialism is surprisingly a good thing.
Or would you think it was bad the world eradicated Nazi Germany?
cygnus@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
That’s an excellent historical analogy — too bad you’ve misunderstood it. Germany was not dissolved after WW2, and its population was not thrown to the wolves. We only replaced their government. I agree that Likud needs to go (ideally to the Hague) but the people here wanting to wipe the country from the map are dangerous lunatics.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 4 months ago
The countries of East and West Germany would like a word with you. The state of Nazi Germany very clearly ceased to exist.