Comment on As Israel Begins “Final Phase” of Genocide, Biden Slams Pro-Palestine Protests

TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

• Bipta@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  All you powerless people on the internet; this is your fault.

  This is what idiots actually believe.

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• Melkath@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  Amen brother.

  All the way through I have been saying "we need to hold Biden's heels to the fire, not be sending the message that his fascist tactics are working."

  "BuT tRuMp!!!"

  Now Trump wins because liberals are disenfranchised and what's worse, I predict that will only drive the DNC deeper into fascism.

  They rigged Bernie out, and doubled down on the fascism then.

  This cycle, there isnt even a viable candidate that they are suppressing, and they are tripling down on the fascism.

  Biden has already lost, and Progressives are more likely to team up with him than to resist him.

  America really is fucked right now...

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  • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Yeah I don’t know what we do.

    I want Bernie to run third party. I don’t think Biden can win.

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    • Melkath@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      The thing that I have found shuts the "you only have 2 choices!" and "BuT tRuMp!!!" people is to remind them that as of March 2023, 49% of Americans are registered Independent.

      Democrats and Republicans have 25% of the country each.

      Since the liberal party went "progressive", dove head first into fascism, censorship, domestic spying, etc, that 49% has all but assuredly risen, and the number for Democrats has lowered.

      "A third party candidate isnt viable!" is absolute unfettered horse shit.

      The American people are making their will decisively known using the election system, we are just allowing them to smother out any non-Party movement.

      I dont think Bernie could win it anymore though. A) He has just gotten too old. B) He had 2 shots, and the DNC murdered any reputation he had that he could win. C) He clearly simply just doesn't want it anymore.

      We need Citizens United overturned to get money back out of politics so a candidate from the overwhelmingly majority political group, Independents, can have a candidate with their political affiliation printed on the ballot.

      We are never going to get them to give up that power though.

      As far as I can tell, America is just fucked and all we can do is brace for when the fascism is literally at our front door and the majority of America becomes the "rebel insurgent" according to the fascist DC agenda (which really already started with Occupy Wallstreet when 'peaceful protesters' were added to the list of DHS domestic terrorist organizations).

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      • Beetlejuice001@lemmy.wtf ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Who is our third party savior?

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    • Uranium3006@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      We have to fight fascism non electorally. Protests, etc. Don't let them win!

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      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        by tooth and claw

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    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      Split the vote and lose the country. You need to be okay with this.

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      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Thats a fallacy based on the assumption Biden can be elected. If Biden can’t win, then literally any other vote is a better, more strategic option.

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• eldavi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  i’m going to copy/paste this to the only 2 comments this thread is getting:

  if you look at the up/down votes the last half dozen biden/gaza threads on the fediverse, you’ll see that there’s nearly 2:1 votes in favor of biden perpetuation genocide.

  the fediverse was started by a tankie and is, arguably, the most left leaning social media platform out there and even there, moderates dominate the conversation.

  add to that the fact that the democratic party is successfully using abortion to get votes and rfk jr is a much bigger threat to trump than biden; it’s pretty clear that biden will win not matter what.

  i’ll leave this quote from mlk jir because it helps me accept this thing that i cannot change:

  I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”

  Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

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  • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    I think the quote about the “white liberal” more interested in the negative peace of order is incredibly salient. I’ve been thinking very very deeply about this quote over the last several months.

    add to that the fact that the democratic party is successfully using abortion to get votes and rfk jr is a much bigger threat to trump than biden; it’s pretty clear that biden will win not matter what.

    I appreciate your optimism but I think this is less certain than you make it out to be. I think you need to take these assumptions to the electoral college map and actually game it out. Specifically, without pivoting on Gaza, I argue that Biden has lost Wisconsin, Michigan, and Minnesota. They demonstrated their willingness to step back from Biden, and Biden has only gotten worse since then. He held onto those states by a shoestring in 2020.

    Thats 35 electoral votes. So where does Biden make those up on abortion rights? What states does Biden flip into his favor. Florida? (yea fucking right) Texas? (blue as my balls waiting for this state to turn purple).

    Like show me on a map where these electoral college votes that Biden has gained are coming from and we can have that conversation. Otherwise, you don’t actually have an argument because the popular vote is irrelevant, and whining about winning the popular vote while losing the electoral college isn’t an argument either.

    My read of the electoral college map is that we’re basically locked into the state it was in for 2016 and 2020. I don’t see anything fundamentally different going into 2024. So the question becomes, what states flip from 2020?

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    • eldavi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      Like show me on a map where these electoral college votes that Biden has gained are coming from and we can have that conversation. Otherwise, you don’t actually have an argument because the popular vote is irrelevant, and whining about winning the popular vote while losing the electoral college isn’t an argument either.

      the argument comes from midterm election results where red safety states went blue when they were bombarded with pro-abortion political adds. this article from npr goes into a deeper dive and also has a link to the exit poll results from those midterm elections: npr.org/…/abortion-democrats-independents-republi…

      additionally: presidential elections also usually go blue so a popular vote win is also likely for biden. (this is so well known that some red states like texas hold their gubernatorial elections on off presidential year elections to avoid this phenomenon).

      finally: my goal wasn’t to spread optimism; i was trying to share something that helps give me peace with our situation with someone who has expressed the same concern i’ve been having in a thread that the fediverse is trying to now trying to ignore.

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      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        I asked for what specific states are going to flip on abortion rights. Your article does not cover that.

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  • livus@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    @eldavi

    i’m going to copy/paste this to the only 2 comments this thread is getting

    I don't get why you don't just post it once and then @ everyone you're talking to, instead of spamming it through the comments section and making us have to scroll through it multiple times.

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    • eldavi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      i didn’t know i could do that; thank you.

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      • livus@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        That would explain it! No worries.

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• corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  The people who hand this election to Trump will do so at the polling booth.

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  • kvartsdan@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Bullshit. Don’t blame voters for Biden risking handing the forever keys to the country to the fucking Nazis just to protect a genocide. Some people have actual principles and if one of those principles is to not vote for a guy that arms and funds a genocide, don’t you fucking dare blaming them. This is on Biden and his handlers thinking it was a jolly fine strategy trying to manufacture enough consent for a genocide among Democrats and Independents to win an election. The obvious weak link is that genocide is a bit of a hard sell to non fascists, in case you didn’t realize.

    Many democrats and independents will still do their duty and vote for Biden, but many simply can’t or won’t vote for a pro genocide politician even if the alternative is so much worse. Some things simply can’t stand and consequences be damned, you know? Conservatives feel that shit over stuff like trans people needing to use the bathroom and naughty books, but genocide is one of those things that can make even a Democrat put their foot down. I mean, who could have figured the woke brigade was against genocide? Camp Biden surely didn’t.

    To summarize, Biden shot a big gaping hole in his own foot and you are blaming the voters for his almost inevitable loss in the upcoming foot race? Is that about right? I can almost see him aiming at the other foot right now, thinking more speed holes will give him an edge.

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