Comment on [deleted]

Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• dsemy@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  This happened 13 years ago at this point, and with all that “immense harm” desktop Linux is more popular than ever.

  I don’t use Gnome, and it really wouldn’t matter much to me if the project ceased operations tomorrow (as long as stuff like GTK is still around), but remember that normal people like you and me work and that project, people who are passionate about making a free system to benefit everyone; and you’re calling their work “extremely harmful” when the worst thing they did was radically change the UX.

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  • deafboy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    13 years, and there’s still no feature parity.

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I absolutely love how developers can do their own thing on Linux, as they say scratch your own itch.
    Problem with Gnome was that the team was extremely arrogant, completely dismissed any criticism, and rejected contributions. Gnome was a weird community project that didn’t give a shit about the community, and abandoned everything they used to stand for.
    I wouldn’t normally have a problem with that, except Gnome’s behavior was harmful to the Linux community as a whole IMO, they abandoned their own community and made life for other desktop projects harder, if they wanted to create an environment that supported Gnome together with other desktop environments, and for other desktop environments that wanted to allow to run Gnome apps somewhat seamlessly.
    How you cannot see that that is harmful and detrimental to Linux as a whole I don’t understand.

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    • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I just found that today Gnome is now only about 20% according to Arch packagestats. I can’t find good stats for marketshare between Linux desktops.

      You can’t seriously believe Arch is representative of the overall Linux desktop space…

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      • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Feel free to find better stat, as I write I can’t find a good stat, so pretty clearly I don’t expect it to be actually representative.

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    • dsemy@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I don’t get why this comment is so unpopular.

      • You made baseless claims:

      when Gnome changed to Gnome Shell Linux marketshare clearly declined. That Linux has begun to rise again, is definitely not because of Gnome Shell but more despite of it.

      I’m assuming you don’t actually have data on this or you’d share it.

      • You keep insulting Gnome developers. You say you love how developers can do their own thing and then call the Gnome team arrogant for doing just that, in the very next sentence. They don’t have to accept criticism, they don’t have to accept contributions (think about this logically, would you want your favorite project to accept any criticism and any contributions?).
      • You say they hurt the ability to run Gnome apps on other desktops with Gnome 3, but both from research and personal experience I can’t figure out what you mean (I use and have used Gnome 3 apps outside of Gnome), and you don’t give any examples (despite your comment being pretty long).

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• TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Gnome is great, and I commend the devs for having the bollocks to come out and say “No, we don’t think Microsoft perfected OS UX in the early 90s”, and do something different that works well, despite knowing the amount of hatred and even death threats they’d get for the change.

  I understand that some don’t want to shift workflow and they just want to continue with the tried and tested WinUX paradigm, and that’s fine. They can use one of the other desktop environments that cater to that (KDE Plasma, Cinnamon, XFCE, Budgie, etc), or they can use a Gnome extension like Dash to Panel.

  It evidently didn’t hurt the Linux desktop as the Linux desktop is more popular and more problem-free than its ever been. If Gnome was such a nightmarish shit show like people on Reddit and Lemmy purport, it wouldn’t be the default on a load of distros, they’d have jumped ship sometime in the past 13 years.

  Just let people use what they wanna use, man.

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  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I hate gnome and it was part of what hurt my initial attempt at linux. I’m also very happy they’re doing it. Like you say, it’s good someone is trying new things. And maybe I would like it if I really gave it a try. But I also prefer my ability to customize over on KDE. Maybe I’ll try a gnome like setup at some point

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Am I in any way even asking people to stop using Gnome? I’m certainly not trying to prevent it either. IMO their actions when designing Gnome Shell were detrimental to Linux, you are 100% free to disagree.

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    • just_another_person@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      No, but people are downvoting you because you’re just whining about your own personal feelings about it, and nobody cares about your sniveling wahwah words.

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      • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        What nonsense to spew, the fact that Gnome broke standards between Linux desktops was a huge issue among developers, just because you you are too ignorant to know, doesn’t make it “my personal feelings”. The harm was very real, and could be seen widely in many areas, and most significantly on the fact that Linux actually lost users. Where it had been slowly gaining for years before.

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  • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Gnome is great, and I commend the devs for having the bollocks to come out and say “No, we don’t think Microsoft perfected OS UX in the early 90s”, and do something different that works well, despite knowing the amount of hatred and even death threats they’d get for the change.

    Some of us might say Gnome 2 perfected the Microsoft UX paradigm. Or KDE 3 did it, depends on the person asked. The thing in common would be “Gnome 3 sucks donkey balls”.

    I understand that some don’t want to shift workflow and they just want to continue with the tried and tested WinUX paradigm, and that’s fine. They can use one of the other desktop environments that cater to that (KDE Plasma, Cinnamon, XFCE, Budgie, etc), or they can use a Gnome extension like Dash to Panel.

    Some of us might become irritated at your attempts to call everybody not liking Gnome a Windows admirer.

    It evidently didn’t hurt the Linux desktop as the Linux desktop is more popular and more problem-free than its ever been. If Gnome was such a nightmarish shit show like people on Reddit and Lemmy purport, it wouldn’t be the default on a load of distros, they’d have jumped ship sometime in the past 13 years.

    It’s not nightmarish shit, but I get tired even emotionally using it faster than I do with my FVWM config.

    Still - I think I’ll try it again. Since it’s a weekend.

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  • lemmyreader@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Gnome is great, and I commend the devs for having the bollocks to come out and say “No, we don’t think Microsoft perfected OS UX in the early 90s”, and do something different that works well, despite knowing the amount of hatred and even death threats they’d get for the change.

    Good to read your take on that bit of history, thanks. On one computer where I have GNOME, it is really nice and comfortable for what I use it for.

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  • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It’s funny when people want to criticize windowing UI they condemn Microsoft, but when they want to sing it’s praises the credit Mac.

    Make up your mind.

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• lemmyreader@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I understand that many people love Gnome today, but Gnome almost caused me to switch away from Linux because of all the problems they caused.

  For all the people upset about the GNOME 2 to GNOME 3 change the MATE desktop environment was started (Launched in Debian in 2013) and it is still alive and kicking :

  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_(desktop_environment)#…

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yes, and I think it may also have helped KDE a lot, KDE is really great today IMO. For the classical experience I prefer XFCE.

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    • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      KDE 3 to KDE 4 transition was very dramatic too. Sadly Trinity is not as good a fork as MATE is.

      KDE 3 was just an amazing desktop, but using it is not very practical. Relevant software using Qt3 - yeah, well, no.

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      • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Yes that is true, but there was no similar breakage, everything KDE 3 and KDE 4 mixed well with other desktops, and mostly followed established standards for the Linux desktop.
        The KDE team never showed similar arrogance to the Gnome team either, and KDE didn’t remove beloved basic functionality because obscure “reasons” like Gnome did.
        Also KDE was not nearly as significant to the Linux environment as Gnome was.
        Finally that is whataboutism and not a valid argument to the debate that what Gnome did was extremely harmful.

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