Comment on [Episode] THE GHOST IN THE SHELL • Koukaku Kidoutai: THE GHOST IN THE SHELL - Episode 1 discussion
mrmaplebar@fedia.io 6 days agoWhy?
Comment on [Episode] THE GHOST IN THE SHELL • Koukaku Kidoutai: THE GHOST IN THE SHELL - Episode 1 discussion
mrmaplebar@fedia.io 6 days agoWhy?
NineSwords@ani.social 6 days ago
The only thing about it that I consider positive was the opening song. I dislike everything else, from character designs, art style, pacing, cinematography, color palette, character expressions, plot structure, exposition, score, to animation, and whatever else there is.
And before someone uhmakschually me, I am aware that this is based on the manga, but the anime movie is a lot more iconic than the manga, and to me GitS is the 1995 movie. This version here, I hate, and no “Uhm, but the manga…” does change that.
The hollywood “adaptation” shits all over GitS, because it misapplies and mixes the themes of the franchise in ways that defeats the purpose of exploring them.
Despite how cool it looks and sounds, it’s a far greater insult.
Changing the tone, colors, or sounds, doesn’t have to stop a series from being about the things GitS is supposed to be about.
The point of GitS was never the style. It was the themes about posthumanism, information infrastructure, and augmented society. That’s clearly still here.
It’s not for you. But its hardly offensive to the franchise.
anonymous_in_atl@ani.social 6 days ago
For what its worth, I think they nailed the production design in that one. That’s about it.
It looks and sounds great.
But it turns Motoko, who is just a common full conversion cyborg, if a hypercompetent military grade one, into a just another generic chosen one. Yet another “first” and “only” one. GitS is about what happens when posthuman science has gone so far that the kinds of things it enables are “normal”.
The movie completely misses that and is left with literally nothing narratively worthwile. It mashes together a bunch GitS moments with no respect for the original message, while simultanously butchering Motokos characterization and also glorifying her into literally the most important person in the history of cyberization.
FFS the originals make a point of Togusa being the “special” one because he’s the only actual “human” on the team!
NineSwords@ani.social 6 days ago
I hate that one as well.
That depends on what you define as “the franchise”. If you define it as “the manga”, this might well be true. But if you see the franchise as “the old anime movie and series”, then it’s a different discussion. The themes in GitS exist in a lot of works that aren’t GitS. What defines the franchise is not its themes alone but a combination of all the aspects it’s made of. The underlying themes are just one of those. And I would argue that the tone and art style are a lot more defining in this particular series than some esoteric plot points. The art style and tone of the 1995 GitS movie, as well as Bladerunner, have been a defining feature of the entire cyberpunk genre. So, from my point of view, this is definitely offensive to the franchise. It’s like turning John Wick into a pastel colored show about a petting zoo and saying that it’s still the same because the theme of him liking dogs is still intact.
Also, just to reiterate, even if it weren’t GitS I wouldn’t like it. It’s not “uhh, it doesn’t look like the movie, so I don’t like it”. It’s “I don’t like it because everything about it is shit AND on top of that, it doesn’t even share the aesthetics of the movie”. I honestly can’t understand how someone could like this first episode. Exposition, plot, pacing, narration, animation, score, cinematography, editing. It was all over the place. It’s just not a good episode. And it’s an even worse GitS episode.
The franchise is everything that exsists.
No-one is claiming it’s the same.
You really leave no room for tastes to differ, huh.
mrmaplebar@fedia.io 6 days ago
Fair enough, I suppose.
I have my issues with it, and I basically had to watch it twice due to the very fast pacing and difficult dialogue/subtitles. But as a fan of these characters and this world, I did enjoy it and I'm glad to be seeing it.
For better or worse, the intent here seems to be to make a faithful adaptation of the iconic Shirow Masamune manga, both in terms of storytelling and stylization. Whether you think that's a good goal or not really depends on how you feel about the manga, and whether it's worth adapting in such a direct way. But that's clearly what Science Saru is trying to do, and it hasn't been done before with this manga.
As a fan of the Masamune's manga, Oshii's films, and Kamiyama's SAC series (at least SAC, 2nd gig, and SSS), I see these all being threads of the tapestry that is Ghost in the Shell. Very different in style and substance, but all of them work together to create an interesting world and a set of great characters exploring interesting themes where humanity and technology coverage. I didn't think one detracts from the others.
In that sense I disagree that this is "shitting all over something that you like", and it's probably more accurate to say that it's being overly faithful to a manga that you don't care for.
Let's say I take your argument in good faith, that this would still suck even if it wasn't named GitS and that your rose-tinted glasses for the 1995 movie aren't affecting you here. Sure, I believe you.
You mentioned cinematography twice, so let me ask you this... what? Why? What part of the cinematography didn't click? Because I thought it was very creative!
We have high angle shots, low angle shots, bird's eye view, mirrors, characters in foreground/background with a rack focus. We have some different POV shots of the tachikomas, some shots of how cramped the characters are when piloting them, we have a couple different HUDs for different characters/factions, the final 2 bullets that Motoko fires is actually a gorgeous tracking shot, I think the slow motion works wonders for it.
There's a lot of variety to the shots and their composition, I think it gives the episode a lot of character. SAC has it's own character as a police procedural drama, but it's pretty plain by comparison. It's straightforward and non-distracting, which is totally valid, just a different style to suit a different show.
So, what part of the cinematography here did you not like? Or are you just throwing words around that you know have something to do with filmmaking?