Comment on France uncovers a vast Russian disinformation campaign in Europe

• agent_flounder@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Of course. That’s been true since the dawn of humanity.

  Russia has a certain flavor of lying that I don’t see elsewhere. They make claims that are so utterly ridiculous that everyone knows it is complete bullshit. It’s like some weird gaslighting / dominance thing. Lavrov and Putin are pros at this.

  Purely by coincidence, you see a similar technique employed by one of the two major US presidential candidates. Only his approach is to repeat the ridiculous lie enough times that some people believe it.

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  • mellowheat@suppo.fi ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Hitler described “große Lüge” in Mein Kampf in 1925.

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    • AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I like the bluntness of the name. BIG LIE

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      • reverendsteveii@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        at this point I’m not even sure you’d have to try to disguise it. I think that Trump could admit that the whole stolen election thing was a lie and that people have ingrained it so deeply into who they feel themselves to be that they’d still believe it and still have the same sense of moral outrage that the election was “stolen”.

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    • sukhmel@programming.dev ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      And I have already seen some people advocating for Putin say that if you compare Putin with Hitler you’ve lost.

      What this also implies is that the more one’s actions resemble actions of Hitler the easier it would be to win over opponents in discussion because they will inevitably come up with this comparison

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      • wewbull@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Once upon a time, in the early internet, invoking Hitler in an argument was always hyperbole and a sign you’d run out of arguments.

        Those days are behind us.

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  • GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Russia has a certain flavor of lying that I don’t see elsewhere. They make claims that are so utterly ridiculous that everyone knows it is complete bullshit. It’s like some weird gaslighting / dominance thing.

    There is one other place I do see this strategy replicated, which is from the IDF.

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    • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Turkey and Azerbaijan

      China

      half the African continent

      …

      seems to not be some innovation limited to specific countries really.

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      • wewbull@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Missing the obvious… Trump, The Brexit cronies, any number of populist movements in Europe.

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• kwozyman@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Sure, but for Russia it’s the actual doctrine: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_deception

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  • maorofl@lemy.lol ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    How is it worse than the US military deception doctrine?

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    • barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      How about instead of linking to documents you do the analysis yourself.

      But to spare you the burden: Remember when Bush came clean and said that all those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq were a lie? And how that didn’t go down well with the west, and how many western countries already called bullshit before the US even invaded? That kind of stuff is doctrine in Russia, not just in the military but also when it comes to securing regime power internally. It’s how Putin won his first election, by blowing up apartment buildings and blaming it on Chechens. Another important thing is to tell so many lies and contradictory things that the very notion of truth gets demolished, that people throw up their hands and say “I’d rather be apolitical than try to figure out what’s what”.

      Western military deception OTOH is more of the “blink right, turn left” kind, it’s about anticipating the opponent’s analysis of the situation and exploiting that, either by feint or because they have a blind spot. And even then you want to be careful because damaging trust is often worse than taking a hit you could’ve avoided with deception.

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      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Another important thing is to tell so many lies and contradictory things that the very notion of truth gets demolished, that people throw up their hands and say “I’d rather be apolitical than try to figure out what’s what”.

        Yes, that is true, can confirm.

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  • K1nsey6@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Now do the CIA

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