Yea…no. Most of the USA is rural areas, range is a huge deal.
Comment on Gel and lithium-ion tech could enable 1000-mile EV range on one charge
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 7 months ago
I wish people would stop obsessing so much over range. Once we have decent charging infrastructure in place and people overcome all the FUD, this will simply cease to be relevant.
SupraMario@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Exactly. Ideally in cities and surrounding suburbs we would want public transportation and no cars. Cars should really be reserved for the more rural places anyway.
SupraMario@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Then you need to figure out the range issue.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 7 months ago
You just need a charging station every hundred kilometres or so, that’s perfectly doable even in sparsely populated areas. In fact, this kind of infrastructure is far easier to roll out than gas stations.
Hyperlon@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I’d rather not refuel in -20F weather on a single trip. Add in a trailer and a road trip becomes a charging trip with intermittent driving.
frezik@midwest.social 7 months ago
Good thing we make decisions based on something that happens for a few days out of the entire year.
SupraMario@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Yep. People in the city, EVs are fine. For those of us who haul or have to drive farther than 20 miles it becomes an issue. It’s not there just yet for us. I’m still holding out for hydrogen ICE motors.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 7 months ago
Yeah, we should make all our infrastructure decisions based on the rarest edge cases.
books@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Not to be a dick but do you realize how rural rural America is?
frezik@midwest.social 7 months ago
To be a dick, have you actually measured distances between gas stations in rural America and thought about how this would work if we replaced them with chargers?
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 7 months ago
They have electricity there, don’t they?
SupraMario@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Wait you think digging a hole and putting in a few tanks to store gas is harder than having substations near by to power super charge stations?
The answer is no, no it is not easier or cheaper.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 7 months ago
So what do they power those gas pumps with? Electricity, by any chance?
frezik@midwest.social 7 months ago
Let’s take the absolute worst case I could find for North America: in Quebec between Matagami and Radisson there is a 620km (390mi) distance between gas stations. This exceeds the range of many ICE cars, but let’s continue. It gets real cold up there, and there’s a few days out of the year where it’s well below 0F. So let’s increase that distance by 40% to get to about 550mi.
There is one EV on the market right now with a 516mi range, the Lucid Air. So it can’t quite make it under the absolute worst case conditions, but neither could many ICE cars.
This problem is completely overblown.
SupraMario@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Gas cans do exist. You can’t carry a substation with you.
frezik@midwest.social 7 months ago
Great, that will help you drive right past the point.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I drive 82 miles a day on average according to my tracking, but that frequently involves days of 400+ miles. And since I drive in hill country and require air conditioning most of the years I know the range estimates are wildly optimistic versus real-world performance.
And charging a car isn’t like filling up with gas. It’s not a 3-minute stop. If a car can get me as far as I’m willing to drive in a day, then an overnight charge seems like an option.
But even then, since I’m a renter and always will be because of the shit going on with housing I can’t get a fast charger.
All of this is to say that it’s not 1 issue. It’s all of them. Range, charging speeds, and availability of chargers ALL have to be addressed and essentially 100% reliable before I can risk owning an all-electric vehicle.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 7 months ago
I always find it amusing how people go through such mental contortions to justify not buying an EV. If you don’t want an EV, just don’t buy one. Nobody cares.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 7 months ago
That’s the thing. I DO want one.
But there’s still significant drawbacks, and some of them are being completely ignored. The renter issue is HUGE.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 7 months ago
FWIW I’ve had an EV for four years now and I rent an apartment with no charger too. There have been times when finding a charger has been inconvenient. But I’ve never looked back. None of those problems are insurmountable and most of the time it’s a minor inconvenience at worst.
xionzui@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Not a 3 minute stop. A whole 15 minutes. Assuming you have a charging station nearby anyway.
JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
I own a 2022 Model Y and I’ve never had a 15m charging stop. It’s always longer. 15m is theoretical. In the real world everything from temperature to the type of charger to how many people are charging at the station to the age of the battery impact speed. You’re looking at 25-40 mins on average to 80%. Double that to charge to 100%. I’m not sure why people feel the need to gaslight non-EV owners. The technology is what it is.
xionzui@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
The Ioniq 5 is rated at 18 minutes 10 to 80%. If you really care about charging time, you don’t need to charge all the way to 80. It starts to slow down after 70. And that’s current technology. It’s only getting faster.
sbv@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Once we have decent charging infrastructure in place
I think part of the range anxiety thing is that buyers think of their worst trip, target than the average trip.
On average, Canadians commute 8.7km to work. Those who commute for more than 60 minutes are averaging 40km. For these trips, drivers don’t need charging infrastructure beyond what they have at home. (And yes, public transit would be an even better option)
There are always outliers, and every time this comes up, people talk about how far they drive on road trips and vacations. Those are not normal use, and they should probably be handled by renting an ICE car.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 7 months ago
Or just getting on a plane to go somewhere far, rather than spending three days of your already limited vacation driving past corn.
jaschen@lemm.ee 7 months ago
I live in an apartment complex with no chargers. It doesn’t matter how much the infrastructure is, if I have to sit once a week to charge my car at a Denny’s, then I’m not interested.
Now, if you say I only need to do that once a month… Hmmm… I’m listening…
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 7 months ago
That’s not how this stuff works. I never sit in my car waiting for it to charge. Sometimes I’ll charge while shopping. Plug in the car, do your weekly grocery shopping come back, drive off. When you use a level 2 (shower) charger, you leave the car and come back after a couple of hours. It obviously depends on the available infrastructure in the places you normally go to. Takes a bit of planning and a bit of forethought. But it’s really not rocket science.
jaschen@lemm.ee 7 months ago
Ya, probably better in your neck of the words. Probably better once there is better infrastructure for me
moistclump@lemmy.world 7 months ago
What FUD I’ve seen the word a couple times today.
essteeyou@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt
hark@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Energy density is the key component. It’d mean less weight for the same range so even if you make a 200 mile range vehicle instead of a 1000 mile range vehicle, the much smaller battery and lighter weight of the vehicle would make a huge difference, plus it’d be cheaper to make in general.
billwashere@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Could not agree more.
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 7 months ago
I’m somewhere in the middle. I’ve thought about getting an EV my case is a 2012 Camry… And it’s still doing fine, but it is getting up there in the years.
I don’t drive much at all three days since I work from home.
When I do drive it’s roughly 150 miles to my parents or my grand parents. It looks like without installing something at their houses I could charge up 120 miles in a 24 hour period with the car entirely on the charger. That’s a bit uncomfortable especially when the cold weather makes the range drop so the “320” miles total becomes closer to “270”.
That means I’m going to potentially need to plan for stopping at a charger. There really aren’t that many chargers available between, e.g. where my parents live in Marietta Ohio, and where I live in Akron Ohio. When looking at a map (provided by Ford for the Mustang Mach-e I was looking at) there were maybe a dozen charging locations with pretty much 1-3 chargers each … That’s compared to a dozen busy gas stations I’ve encountered with ~8 pumps each.
I’d probably be fine but … I think I’d be better off waiting a couple of years and seeing if the 600 mile EV range becomes a reality. At that point all of my regular trips are accounted for and I’m okay looking for charging on the odd times I go on a large trip.
Alternatively, maybe there will be more chargers by that point (or charging will be faster) and I’ll feel more comfortable that I’ll be able to find a charger when I need it.
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I live in California, so the infrastructure is likely more built up here, but I regularly make trips from the SF Bay Area all the way to San Diego or Las Vegas just fine. On a shorter 2.5 hour trip, I could see it being annoying, but a couple charge stops on an 8 hour trip offer a nice time to take a break to grab a quick bite and carry on. Just my two cents.
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 7 months ago
I’ve thought about that too, but the stretch of road there is basically an interstate through the country side the majority of the route. There’s very little in terms of interesting cuisine or places to really walk around.
Kbobabob@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Some people don’t want to feel like they have to stop every hour for 15-20 minutes. If I’m going on a long road trip I’m fine driving 300-400 miles without stopping. I’m probably a minority but I’m sure I’m not the only one.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 7 months ago
You’re certainly not the only one but you’re also being grossly irresponsible. Sufficient breaks are essential for staying attentive. Not stopping for five or six hours is just asking for disaster. Just think about what you’re going to feel like if you killed someone because you fell asleep at the wheel.
Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Gonna upvote you, anyone who isnt taking regular breaks on long trips is asking for trouble. This is true of anything we do. No one here is going to argue we should for 5-8 hours without a break.
They only make driving lessons 45 minutes because any longer and you start to lose concentration.
Truck drivers have to take breaks every 4.5 hours for 45 minutes.
When studying they recommend a 15 minute break every 45 minutes
When learning in school lessons are 45 minutes to an hour due to conce tration and you get a break in the middle of the day.
If you are being downvoted its only by people who dont think about what you are saying or they think they are superhuman and the normal limitations of human beings dont apply to them.
sorghum@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Is this a specific state requirement? I ask because that’s not what the FMCSA says. It’s 30 minute break every 8 hours (USA) and it can be any activity including including work (except driving) that would satisfy the requirement. Source, am a truck driver and …dot.gov/…/summary-hours-service-regulations see 30-minute driving break section.
Jarix@lemmy.world 7 months ago
We need more data for everyone to see.
We need to see what the average vehicle owner does with their vehicles.
Because the people who use their cars they most need the best experience, but they used the vehicle differently than the majority of people.
Evs need to be released on different models for different styles.
If you only travel with people that need constant breaks, then there no reason needing a 15 to 20 minute break frequently can’t be made to work with a lower range vehicle if you only need to do long trips a few times a year or less. The savings of having that vehicle the rest of the time should be made to more than offset any special needs that aren’t needed often.
There’s other options to explore as well. Like it’s easy to find example of vehicles with multiple gas tanks. If you need an extended battery there should be a trailer like attachment that extends the range of your vehicle. Make towing something get you better range because the thing you added towing is extra “fuel”
I’m sure there are technical problems that will need to be addressed or solved and it might require car companies to change designs about to make it seams but it’s very doable
JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
You’re not the only one. Most people try to make as much distance as possible between stops.
invertedspear@lemm.ee 7 months ago
If there are reliable and fast chargers every 50 miles you’ll have several choices in that 300-400 mile range and we already have plenty of cars capable of that. The goal is not to have everyone stop at every charger. But to allow more people to drive how they are most comfortable and maybe even enable more cars to road trip.