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Comment on Reactionaries and inconsistency are a match made in heaven

Men work much harder for much less pay which ruins the job market.

Women do the same, or Women stay home.

Money maid is under the table, taxes aren't paid.

They have litters of children and the amount they make cant support the 10 people in the house.

They collect welfare.

I'm all for opening the borders and making an easy path to citizenship, and I am all for increasing minimum wage for all, but this argument is a pretty dumb oversimplification.

Republicans want to build walls. Democrats just want to act like its not a thing that needs attention.

We need to work on and build and easy path to citizenship. We need immigrants paid on the books. We need immigrants demanding the same pay rates that we have been demanding. We need immigrants paying taxes.

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ssboomman@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Immigrants aren’t having ‘litters’ of children. That’s a racist stereotype. A 59% of all illegal immigrants don’t have a single child

www.migrationpolicy.org/data/…/US

cis.org/…/Fertility-Among-Immigrants-and-NativeBo…

Also illegal immigrants don’t collect welfare. You need to be a US a citizen for that.

www.fns.usda.gov/snap/…/non-citizen-policy#:~:tex….

Illegal immigrants commit less crime, they grow almost all of our food, immigrants consumed about 27 percent less welfare and entitlement benefits in 2020 than native‐born Americans, they are not the problem

The issue is with capital owners hiring them and the immigrants being forced to work in horrible conditions because they lack the ability to collectively bargain. I do agree that we need a fast, cheap and easy path to citizenship.

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- Melkath@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  "Unauthorized immigrants comprise slightly more than 4% of the adult population of the U.S., but because they are relatively young and have high birthrates, their children make up a much larger share of both the newborn population (8%) and the child population (7% of those younger than age 18) in this country."
  
  https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2010/08/11/unauthorized-immigrants-and-their-us-born-children/
  
  Sure, 59% of illegal immigrants don't have children. But the 41% do, and when they do, its not 1 or 2. It's a litter. A big enough litter to MORE than make up for the 59% who are doing the right thing and not rawdogging it constantly.
  
  Welfare doesnt mean snap. Welfare means "statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need."
  
  Here's a lazy link that is just the tip of the iceberg:
  
  https://www.charitynavigator.org/discover-charities/best-charities/immigration-refugee-charities/
  
  As for the rest, I'm not disagreeing with you.
  
  I just think you are being delusional if you don't think that illegal immigrants are driving down the minimum wage.
  
  I think you are being delusional if you don't think that illegal immigrants help business owners evade income taxes while evading income taxes themselves.
  
  I think you are being delusional if you don't think that illegal immigrants breed at a rate that surpasses Americans with a legal resident status.
  
  I think you are being delusional if you don't think that as a society, we spend a massive amount of time and resources subsidizing illegal immigrant families that take shitty low paying jobs and have too many kids.
  
  Give them real help. Remove the illegal status. Help them naturalize.
  
  Don't put on blinders. Fix the issues.
  
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  - ssboomman@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Wrong again. The average immigrant has 0 children and the ones that do have 1-2, again on average. Illegal immigrants aren’t driving down the minimal wage. This is objectively untrue as the amount of illegal immigrants are complexity uncorolated to the minimum wage. They are also actually a net gain for the taxpayer. I don’t disagree to the solution, but looking at reality and facts when assessing the situation is the most important first step
    
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  - sukhmel@programming.dev ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I’d guess that their share in child population is bigger not because they have so many children but because citizens don’t have many (of at all) children. It’s the same with all of the developed countries, their birth rates are below population sustain threshold.
    
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mhague@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
This is wrong.

Illegal immigrants pay a lot of taxes. You see, in America, we tax all kinds of goods. How are these people buying gas, groceries, and other but not paying taxes?

We also have stats and estimates for the flow of money. A lot of this money goes right back into local economies. Illegal immigrants can’t even send money out of the county without institutions taking a cut.

And people who use fake identifies to earn a check pay taxes. They pay into social security. Most of the time they don’t even qualify for the services they are supporting.

You know what I feel, but don’t have stats for? People who speak negatively about immigrants / illegal immigrants, in general, have no idea how the world functions. Nor do they properly engage with experts who study these things.

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- Melkath@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Oh, fuck off with you.
  
  I was talking about income tax, and you know it.
  
  Evading your income tax also helps the business owner evade their half of payroll taxes.
  
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  - Pons_Aelius@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Oh, fuck off with you.
    
    Yep, that will definitely sway people reading this.
    
    Do you give lessons in rhetorical techniques?
    
    I was talking about income tax, and you know it.
    
    Assuming people can read your mind is always a good idea.
    
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    Melkath@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I bet you're the type of fucker who throws a bucket of water on someone when they ask for something to drink.
    
    "Well.... acktchually, a significant portion of moisture absorbed by the human body is absorbed through the skin, so the skin technically is drinking the water. What, was I supposed to read your mind that you wanted a glass of water to drink with your mind?"
    
    Find your nearest community college, take a few critical thinking courses, then come back to talk with the grownups.
    
    Till then, keep it to yourself.
    
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  - mhague@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Illegal immigrants pay over 1 billion in income taxes. They contribute more income tax to our country than the 1%. They also pay 3x that amount in property taxes. As previously pointed out, there’s a lot of other taxes they pay.
    
    Undocumented workers pay federal taxes and they don’t need stolen identifies to do so. We have a lot of ways to extract value from people even when they’re not formally citizens.
    
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- explodicle@local106.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Illegal immigrants can’t even send money out of the country without institutions taking a cut.
  
  You can still trade bitcoin at a coffee shop, it’s just not as convenient as an online exchange.
  
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  - mhague@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    But our government just took down the biggest vendor in the west, embedded third-party watchmen, is bleeding the company, got a judicial opinion that nfts are not that different than other systems and therefore subject to current regulations, etc. It’s probably not a big deal but I’m curious if there’s any stats / estimates.
    
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    explodicle@local106.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That’s why I’m suggesting in-person trading that can just ignore those laws. No companies involved at all.
    
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Westcoastdg@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
“Litters of children” like animals amirite? Rational people don’t need to dehumanize to make an argument.

Also, how do immigrants collect welfare without social security numbers? Is your premise that 100% are frauders?

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- Melkath@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I'm child-free.
  
  I call a gaggle of crotchfruit a litter regardless of age, race, color, creed, or origin.
  
  Immigrants are one of the worst offending demographics, however, when it comes to rawdogging it constantly.
  
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  - Pons_Aelius@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    I'm child-free.
    
    Well, that's a positive.
    
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    Melkath@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I know, right?
    
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  - 2bR02b@lemmy.one ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Watch a lot of immigrant porn?
    
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Starglasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Want to talk about the billionaires evading taxes instead? That’s far more money and billionaires get government subsidies or contracts or…

A lot more money.

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TheKingBee@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I mean your wrong, with an IRS issued ITIN undocumented immigrants pay federal taxes amounting to $6 billion a year…

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- Melkath@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  This is a well formed counter for my tax argument.
  
  That said, I question how many illegal immigrants are actually going through these processes as opposed to ones who dont do it because they are afraid of ICE.
  
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  - TheKingBee@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    No disagreement, but the fact so many sign up despite the risk is pretty amazing. It completely destroys the don’t pay taxes, don’t want to contribute argument, Most hope by doing this they will prove they want to be law abiding citizens when it comes to a hearing.
    
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