Are gun makers responsible when their products are misused to murder?
It’s not really misuse, the intended purpose of a gun is to kill someone/something, that’s literally what they designed to do.
Comment on Apple AirTag Stalking Has Led to Murder, Amended Class-Action Lawsuit Says
fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
GPS and VHF trackers have been used to stalk people for way longer than AirTags and have zero safeguarding features. And Tile, at least last time I used one, had zero safeguarding features and are pretty just exactly the same product as AirTags.
This all seems a bit frivolous. Are gun makers responsible when their products are misused to murder? Or knife makers?
Seems funny that Apple are the ones getting sued and not the tools of destruction used to end life. It’s like suing the car manufacturer of the car the murderer used to get to the scene.
DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Kinda similar to AirTags with tracking things.
echo64@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Here’s the thing about all this. Yes, tech existed before airtags. But apple made the tech incredibly accurate, incredibly cheap, and marketed the hell out of it.
On top of that, the protection features have been massively lacking, especially around people who do not use iPhones.When they first came out, a few companies did tests on their employees around air tags. They would slip air tags into their car. The end result was that some people noticed, especially iPhone users. Many did not.
Undoubtedly, there are people dead today who would be alive if airtags didn’t exist or if apple had done more.
And yes, we do hold companies up to some level of responsibility. Of course we do.
lol3droflxp@kbin.social 1 year ago
It’s not like there aren’t any trackers that lack any and all protection. I don’t really see the manufacturer at fault here.
fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Mini GPS trackers have been available for cheap (cheaper than AirTags) for years and they’re practically undetectable. No apps are going to help you there.
Apple built detection features, beeping alarms, and even apps for platforms beyond their own to aid people in being tracked against their will. Tile didn’t. I don’t know any other trackers that have put as much effort into the problem.
Google wouldn’t implement OS-level features for competitors’ products so people suggesting Apple shouldn’t have launched until their competitors added in support are being unrealistic.
echo64@lemmy.world 1 year ago
atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They launched it with no regard to just how dangerous it would be, then waited a significant period of time for multiple reports to come forward that emphasized the dangers, then made safeguards after the fact. And finally didn’t implement those safeguards in a way that could be used by all users across the board right away. They were a step behind in protecting consumers pretty much every step of the way in this. It’s not like this didn’t take years to get to this point.
We can stop pretending they didn’t create a spy device for the masses.
They launched the airbag in April 2021 after a massive ad campaign.
They got the first reports of airtag stalking pretty much right away. And for apple users they created and implemented some protections right away. But it took them about 9 months to launch an android app and that app wasn’t even compatible with all android phones.
So finally two years later in 2023 they made it so you can detect air tags with android without the app. But only if you’re using a phone with android 6.0 or higher. I know it sounds unrealistic to us techies that people might be using phones that aren’t 6.0 or higher. But about 2.79% of android phones still run lollipop.
This also does nothing at all to protect people using flip phones or phones that don’t run android or apple software. There’s a cult following for dumb phones and people should be able to use whatever device they want for communication without just being left with no safeguards from one or the largest tech companies in the world.
Saying they don’t owe anything to consumers doesn’t make sense. We have literally gone after tech companies for not safeguarding consumers before. An example is several IOT baby monitors that were hacked and later pulled from shelves. The difference seems to be that this is a big tech company with a well known name brand.
We even saw this with kids buying things on parents credit cards and the company being held liable after a class action suit. So what I feel like a lot of people in this thread are saying is that this company bears no responsibility for its product being used for illegal purposes because those purposes lead to murder instead of fraud. Because I have yet to find a thread lamenting that Amazon was held liable for allowing kids to make in app purchases on their parents credit cards.
dependencyInjection@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Undoubtedly, there are people dead today who would be alive if hammers didn’t exist or if manufacturers had made them softer.
Undoubtedly, there are people dead today who would be alive if paracetamol didn’t exist or if chemists had done more.
Undoubtedly, there are people dead today who would be alive if cars didn’t exist or if the auto industry didn’t lie for years about the dangers of leaded fuel.
cosmic_slate@dmv.social 1 year ago
What more do you want as a solution? This FUD is unreasonable.
They provide an Android app to detect AirTags following you, they give notifications about AirTags following you, if you give the tag to law enforcement they are more than willing to determine who owns the Apple ID of the tag owner, and if you suspect you’re being tracked, they give instructions on how to find and disable the tag.
Source: support.apple.com/en-us/HT212227
atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Not for anyone using any android variant below android 6.0. There’s still users using phones stuck on lollipop.
cosmic_slate@dmv.social 1 year ago
Android 6.0 released in 2015, they should just get a new phone at that point. There’s no perfect solution, sorry.
stardust@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Yeah, this type of tech is way more accessible than it was before, which isn’t the problem. It’s that Apple has not done enough to provide safety to users from airtags if they aren’t using an Apple product. This isn’t one of those techs that should be gated behind a walled garden because of the potential consequences to unsuspecting targets.
Apple needs to break from their usual walled garden approach when it comes to their tracking technology.
dpkonofa@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Ok…and what about the trackers you can buy on Amazon for less than $20 that don’t tell anyone that they’re tracking except the stalker? Do those next. Explain how Apple is at fault for that. I’m almost there.
echo64@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Top tip, if you start a discussion point with “what about”, you should check it for whatsboutisms that aren’t helpful to the discussion.
In this case those aren’t relevant, those products did not have a blisteringly widescale advertising and marketing budget around them advertising how you can use the greatest tracking network ever created by the world’s top engineers so you can track anything you want
cosmic_slate@dmv.social 1 year ago
I’m not sure what more you want here. What are your ideas on how to make this more robust?
They provide an app for Android users to locate tags, they give a notification when tags follow someone, they will work with law enforcement to find the Apple ID of the tag owner if found, they give instructions on how to find and disable the tag.
support.apple.com/en-us/HT212227
whynotzoidberg@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Would the problem be solvable by saying Google needs to break from their approach (do nothing, in this case), and work with Apple to incorporate Apple’s tech into Android by default?
Just trying to think through the finger pointing that happens as we reel in tech.
paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Google already did this.
However, the onus to mitigate problems created by one company shouldn’t be their on competitors.
Apple launched AirTags alone, leveraging its massive Find My network, in order to have an immense advantage in the market, and this helped Apple rake in millions and millions of dollars.
It could have coordinated with Google even before the AirTag launch, but this would have probably resulted in missing out on millions in profits. So Apple chose profits over mitigating ethical and moral concerns, and only fixed problems a long time after it started selling the product to customers.
TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world 1 year ago
But they have added protection features, unlike virtually every other option. Yet they are the ones being sued? It does not seem fair.
echo64@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Their protection features did not go nearly far enough and were far too restricted to only apple users. I don’t see why apple shouldn’t have to be punished for causing harm just because others are too small to notice.