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Comment on We should rename Solar to Patriot Power to make it palatable to the right

Patriot Power is real, and it really sucks. It’s the solar power offerings through 4Patriots, weak-ass off-brand Chinese batteries & weak, overpriced solar panels. The only good things 4Patriots offers is survival food & sun kettles.

There are plenty of people on the right who would love energy independence, but problems include cost, infrastructure, and implementation. I’m team solar panel/nuclear power, but every few years…the solar panel tech gets way better than it EVER was. So when is the right time to plunk down tens of thousands of dollars?? It’s just now starting to get really good.

Wind turbines are also getting much better. And it’s about damn time.

The biggest financial problem is energy storage solutions, spend $5-10K per battery, and have it lose 40% of its effectiveness after 5 years?? Yeah, no thanks, I’m not an idiot.

But we’re coming up with (ACTUAL, WORKING, COST-EFFECTIVE) solutions for that problem, too. Sand, gravity, and waterfall batteries.

All this to say, the technology is just now starting to get serious traction & legs under it. ¯\(°_o)/¯ It’s not ready…until it’s ready. The ‘greenest’ things we can do, right now, involve reducing our usage & upping our efficiencies (via new windows/doors, insulation). That’s the smart money.

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RGB3x3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I just heard about gravity “batteries” that involve lifting concrete blocks to store potential energy, then dropping them to generate electricity with a turbine. It’s probably the most interesting thing I’ve heard of in a while and such a clever way to store energy without needing a battery.

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- Bgugi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  The math doesn’t really work out for gravity batteries. A fifteen ton block dropping 100 feet releases about a kwh of energy.
  
  Or you could just have $150 worth of lithium batteries.
  
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  - CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    See I’ve been skeptical about the gravity battery, too. I’m glad to see it developed, toyed with, but I like very simple ideas with very few, if any, moving parts. Gravity battery? Moving parts, cables. Would be a nightmare to work on if it broke down, possibly dangerous with the stored potential energy.
    
    Much safer: sand battery. BTUs are expensive, you’re probably heating your water, and depending on the winter climate where you live, you are using electricity to convert to BTUs so you can heat your home/not die. I say skip the middle man!! Convert the extra energy generated from solar/wind/whatever…store it in the fucking sand as heat.
    
    I also look at the sand battery’s simplicity, serviceability from a post-nuke/EMP/grid-down/post-apocalyptic standpoint. Should I be unfortunate enough to survive. It’s so…practical. Solar panels should only get hit <15% damage from EMP. It gets the electricity. Sent to large copper rods, acting as heating elements. Heat the sand. 🙌🏻 Sand will cost a few thousand & never degrade. Rods, cheap enough, have some spares. Those shitty LiPO batteries play out during the apocalypse, as they literally always do? You’re SOL.
    
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    skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    first, it stores heat only. you can make it work with 1000L or so barrel of water and this gets you supply for days. second, you’d want this thing to service entire small community, because otherwise square-cube law fucks you hard. you need also all the auxiliary devices like heaters, pumps, control hardware that looks the same no matter if you make it work for your house or small village
    
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  - Zippy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    This. Thanks for doing the math. The only way it makes any real sense is if you a have geographical features that can store the energy. Ie right near a mountain and a large body of water high up. And even with that, it often only makes economical sense at exsisting dams where you can pump the water back into the reservoir and the generation systems is already paid for and in place.
    
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- DrQuint@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Yes. And it works.
  
  It’s called a Dam.
  
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- elxeno@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Timberborn has those, it’s a city builder game with beavers.
  
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- skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  there are plenty issues with wear of all moving parts involved. fortunately it can be improved on in a pretty straightforward way www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGGOjD_OtAM
  
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  - PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks [bot] ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
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- satanmat@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Energy storage is THE issue…. You want to be a billionaire? Figure that out.
  
  Pumped hydro, is great, but there are very few places where it is feasible
  
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  - skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    there are many nifty ways to do it. i like molten silicon for example silbat.com
    
    but how about shift in perspective? if you want to get in on all renewable power source, maybe it’s you who should adjust power consumption a little bit instead? fortunately most of energy used is used up for heating, and you can plug all excess energy into heater, store energy in big barrel of water for all your heating needs, and skim electrical power when available + maybe batteries as a higher priority
    
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Maeve@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
The government used to invest in such things for their citizens but I guess a well-educated, fed, homed citizenry isn’t considered a good roi anymore, not to mention adequately staffed public care facilities. Yes i know i heard about what Biden and nursing homes. Funny thing is, that was the norm thirty years ago, and restaurant employees got a free meal. If they worked a shift and other things we don’t have anymore, because regulation is Satan and fu they got theirs, and the dollar went further. I keep seeing blaring ads about government assistance for solar panels but they seem sus.

Maybe see what you find online, but will you be charged for not using your energy provider?

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- CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Forgot to address the gov assist stuff, it’s legit actually, but it’s not exactly the boon normies think it is. So you buy & install solar, with evidence, you document everything & jump through all their little hoops. When you meet their requirements, you’re given a 30% or whatever ‘credit’ on your federal income taxes. Which isn’t exactly free money, but it’s better than a kick in the head & it’s rewarding you for going solar.
  
  Now you wanna talk fucking sus??? All those third-party solar installers, namely, those that “will install for free” or “costs you nothing out of pocket 🤗”. Those guys are sus as all hell. They’re predatory, they’re not trying to help you! Only enrich themselves. Again, IIRC, sometimes they take your gov’t tax credit money somehow. And/or they charge you monthly, or they take money/power you generate via the solar panels…I don’t trust any of it; you’re inviting random-ass people onto your property & they’re installing thousands of dollars in gear you don’t technically own, and you’re pressing your property into servitude until it’s “paid off” in 10, 15, 20 years. Don’t do it. Buy it, own it, get all the benefits for yourself.
  
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  - Maeve@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Yeah it’s bs to have to pay for feeding energy back to the grid and bs people scam people to install anything. It’s bs we still subsidize anything that’s a legit utility/need for the corporate robber barons instead of individual families who otherwise can’t afford needs.
    
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- CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  So here’s the deal, in a nutshell:
  
  I’m afraid if I “go public” with my goddamn private solar energy setup, AKA I opt into a grid tie-in deal where I feed my excess electric back into the grid, I pay extra for setup. And IIRC my electric provider charges monthly for the “privilege” of tie-in. And these are just the devils we know about! I take the money, I subject my system & my property to scrutiny from third party companies & my state, who knows what stupid shit they might come up with & force onto me.
  
  The best, simplest, cleanest solution I can think of is to privately install enough renewable energy to power my home. And a robust energy storage system that can power my needs when the sun isn’t shining, wind isn’t blowing, etc.
  
  IIRC my electric provider charges $10 or $20, monthly, whether you use their electric or not. <=$240 annually? I call that a small price to pay for energy independence with the insurance of an established electric provider able to take over if system(s) fail.
  
  Alternatively, if renewable energy production/STORAGE options become better & more reasonable in cost, just overbuild like hell & go fully off-grid. Discontinue electric service. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It’s tempting…had a blackout just last night. 😂
  
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skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
but do you need stored large amounts of electric energy? most of energy use is in form of heat for space heating and hot water, and for storage of that all you need is big barrel with multiple heat exchangers (coiled pipes + baffles). put in heat from solar concentrators, heat pump maybe, furnace and you’re good in all situations

problems only really begin if you want to start up welder on cold winter night

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- fiah@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  problems only really begin if you want to start up welder on cold winter night
  
  or try to cook dinner on your induction stove. A good hot water storage should reduce the need for electrical power storage but won’t eliminate it
  
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