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Comment on Dbzero has Defederated from Feddit.org following its Governance post about the later's Zionist Bar Problem

TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Look at the response in context of Feddit. Its not a critique of you, per se, its a critique of the German law/ idealogical approach. Lets suggest, in your words, a full “national socialist” genocide is at least possible in this day and age. The world did no know the full extent of Germany’s action until well into the process.

If we rely on the logic of the German approach, we wouldn’t be able to call the thing a thing until its too late. The point being made is that if you wait long enough to be able to a full historical analysis, you’ve effectively become an apologist for genocide on the basis of a lack of evidence.

And I would argue that Israels actions over the previous 80 years are extremely comparable to what the National Socialists did in Germany, and in some ways, even more disgusting. Germany ran concentration camps for around 12 years. Israel has been running them for almost 80. Germany treated it as a war of extermination. Israel is running it as a war of extermination.

The only difference is that we have the opportunity to stop Israel in its tracks, now, as its becomes clear the Israelies are not going to stop until the entire Palestinian population is eliminated. Disallowing or diminishing comparisons between the most famous historical genocide and the ongoing Israeli genocide in Palestine supports genocide

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Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The thing is called a thing and should be called a thing. I.e. genocide. All genocide needs to be stopped at almost any cost. I don’t have any capacity to argue further, so many people are saying things.

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- Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  We all get why Germany has strong laws against antisemitism, given its history. That doesn’t mean German support towards Israel need to be unconditional, which is what has happened, in effect. The left, the right and the center in Germany all seem to agree on one thing… unconditional support for Israel.
  
  “German history and our responsibility arising from the Holocaust make it our duty to stand up for the existence and security of the State of Israel.” – Olaf Scholz, October 2024.
  
  You are basically taking the same line as Scholz, despite the fact Israel has proven itself to be a fascist ethnostate that seems intent on genociding all its neighbours. Anyone who is still committed to justifying or both-sidesing the Israeli genocide of Palestinians needs a smack in the head imo.
  
  I do accept the fact you have acknowledged the genocide. But then why are you so hung up about folk making equivalences between fascist genocidal Israelis and fascist genocidal Nazis? It’s about the most obvious comparison one could make. Arguing that it’s a false equivalence is simply another way to excuse the atrocities committed by Israel. Statements like “Israel has done a few bad things, but they are nowhere near as bad as the Nazis, so you mustn’t make a direct comparison” are nothing more than genocide apologia. Just because Israel has done a “smaller” genocide (so far) doesn’t mean shit to me. Zionist ideology is just as reprehensible as Nazi ideology.
  
  More than 75,000 Palestinians were killed in the first 15 months of Israel’s military assault in Gaza, a figure far higher than the 49,000 deaths local health officials announced at the time, says a new study by The Lancet Global Health medical journal. The peer-reviewed study, published on Wednesday, found that women, children and the elderly comprised some 56.2% of violent deaths in Gaza during that period, a composition that it said roughly aligned with reporting by Gaza’s health ministry. […]
  
  “The combined evidence suggests that, as of Jan 5, 2025, 3–4% of the population of the Gaza Strip had been killed violently and there have been a substantial number of non-violent deaths caused indirectly by the conflict,” the authors wrote. Source
  
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  - Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’m not even arguing for the things you’re talking about, I’m just trying to bring some understanding. In literally none of the things I talked about, nor in what the feddit.org admins talked about, was there anything about keeping up unconditional support for Israel.
    
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    mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    any support of pissrael is zionism. Everyone knows what pissrael stands for, what it does, this is like talking about “unconditional support for nazi germany” in 1943. No amount of conditions is gonna make support for a genocidal apartheid settler colony appropriate.
    
    Death to Pissrael, Death to the united Schutzstaffeln of ameriKKKa, Death to genocidesmany, Death to the Nazi-American Treatler Organisation, Long live the global south and the proletariat.
    
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- TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  The thing is called a thing and should be called a thing.
  
  Ok. Well thats not what you are doing and its not what German law or Feddit is doing. People are trying to call a thing a thing, and are getting push back saying “You can’t call this thing that thing”
  
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  - Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    You again ignore that the “thing” I talk about is a “genocide”, which is what is happening, and it is one of the worst things humans can do to each other and needs to be stopped at all costs.
    
    You insist on not understanding, I’m done.
    
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    TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    You insist on not trying to understand, I’m done.
    
    No, its that you continue to insist that your “nuance” isn’t apoligism.
    
    You insist on not trying to understand, I’m done.
    
    This isn’t a train station. No need to announce your departure. Everyone here can read your words and judge you for themselves, and they are, and they see you apologizing for genocide. You should take the time of your departure to mediate on why that might be.
    
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lmmarsano@group.lt ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

If we rely on the logic of the German approach, we wouldn’t be able to call the thing a thing until its too late. The point being made is that if you wait long enough to be able to a full historical analysis, you’ve effectively become an apologist for genocide on the basis of a lack of evidence.

Untrue: it’s a matter of accurate wording. “The evidence so far indicates they’re potentially…” or “For all we know, they could be…” gets the same idea across without violating integrity concerning degree of certainty or knowledge.

Providing material support to Israel is no different from providing material support to Nazi Germany

Technically & literally false: they are different. A lawyer can challenge the falsehood.

Providing material support to Israel is bad for the same reasons providing material support to any genocidal state including Nazi Germany is bad

Providing material support to Israel is providing material support to a genocidal state

Providing material support to Israel is as bad as providing material support to a feebler Nazi Germany

All technically correct or opinion.

Claiming shit is true before we have the evidence to justify it is invalid & another way to state you’re claiming shit you don’t actually know: you’re spouting shit. Spouting shit is fine in cool countries that respect liberty. However, Germany is not one of them. Spouting the wrong shit in Germany is legally risky: apparently, the law parses words with autistic literalism.

By punishing verbal laziness, the law doesn’t necessarily “support genocide”. It is coercing you to stop being a slob & express yourself with (annoying?) accuracy.

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