So free speech for you but not for me? Sound an awfully fascist of you. Do you unironically think that free speech should only apply to some people and anyone who doesn’t agree with you should be silenced? Is this not the very thing you are accusing ice of doing? Do u not see the hypocracy or do u simply not care?
Comment on I HAVE BEEN BANNED FROM SO MANY SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS FOR NOT BEING OKAY WITH FASCISM AND VIOLENCE!
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 22 hours agoIronically I doubt you would give me the same courtesy.
Hell no. If you support ICE, then fuck everything you care and please unironically light yourself on fire immediately.
muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com 22 hours ago
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 21 hours ago
So free speech for you but not for me?
Yes if you speak in support of fascism, including but not limited to ICE.
Sound an awfully fascist of you.
It’s not, but if people started adopting your view of what constitutes fascism, then the term would be useless.
Do you unironically think that free speech should only apply to some people and anyone who doesn’t agree with you should be silenced?
No, just fascists.
Is this not the very thing you are accusing ice of doing?
It’s literally not what I’m accusing ICE doing. I am accusing ICE of doing what they were designed to do, i.e. enforce immigration laws and terrorize the working class on behalf of the capitalist class.
Do u not see the hypocracy or do u simply not care?
I don’t care about accusations of hypocrisy from fascists and their supporters since I know what makes you cheer.
Infinite genocide against fascists forever. amerikkka
muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com 19 hours ago
Glad we could establish that you don’t support free speech. Given that you don’t support free speech you have no right to complain when people silence you.
You didn’t celebrate the death of Charlie kirk cos he was a fascist you called him a fascist so u could kill him.
It seems u don’t have an issue with fascism but an issue with the democratic laws of the nation. Interesting that jan6 was so bad cos it was against democracy but the second democracy is against you then its justified to break the law.
Glad we could establish that u don’t care about being a hypocritic rally makes it clear that your not coming from a place of rationality or good faith.
And real talk. The government holds the monopoly on violence. They could just go Tiananmen square on ur ass and kill you all. The fact that u can sit around screaming death threats at people on the internet and celebrating the death of people you don’t like is a testament to the fact that the government is not fascist as no fascist regime would ever tolerate what u are currently doing. You behaving like this is only going to radicalise people further to the right and the more u push your violent intolerant rhetoric the closer you push everyone else towards exercising that very same violence upon you.
epicthundercat@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 17 hours ago
Glad we could establish that u don’t care about being a hypocritic rally makes it clear that your not coming from a place of rationality or good faith.
If you’re not a fascist, then I am here in good faith, and we should be able to agree that fascism is bad and needs to be stopped. For fascists… fascists get nothing. Right now, you’re fence-sitting. Pick a side.
It seems u don’t have an issue with fascism but an issue with the democratic laws of the nation.
I am literally an anarcho-communist. I 1000% do not support liberal “”“democratic”“” nations or any other nation-states. Of course I fucking oppose fascism, but liberal democracy is what allowed fascism to rise.
Interesting that jan6 was so bad cos it was against democracy but the second democracy is against you then its justified to break the law.
January 6th was bad because Nazis did it, and that’s literally it. AmeriKKKans have had a moral duty to storm the fucking capital and rid this land of its pedophile colonialist elites since the day white people landed on this continent. And yes it is almost always permissible, sometimes even obligatory, to break the law. The law is not only not a substitute for morality, but it is usually in direct opposition to the right things.
You behaving like this is only going to radicalise people further to the right and the more u push your violent intolerant rhetoric the closer you push everyone else towards exercising that very same violence upon you.
You know if it only takes your fee-fees getting hurt by one meanie bobeanie internet leftist to go to the right wing, I somehow think you weren’t very likely to listen anyways.
The fact that u can sit around screaming death threats at people on the internet and celebrating the death of people you don’t like is a testament to the fact that the government is not fascist as no fascist regime would ever tolerate what u are currently doing.
Every mean thing I said was conditioned on whether or not you’re a fascist, so if you’re not a fascist, then none of that shit applies and you shouldn’t need to feel offended by it. Like please stop fucking fence sitting; pick a fucking side.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 21 hours ago
Seems like you fell for the bait & made their point, and I figured they were just playing devil’s advocate. “Free speech” only when it doesn’t offend you isn’t free speech. This is just plain hypocrisy.
superkong47@lemmy.zip 13 hours ago
The fuck are you on about? “Free speech” is a protection against government overreach- period. Doesn’t have a damn thing to do with regular citizens “canceling” each other
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 21 hours ago
Please look at the next comment. I made it very clear that the speech I’m railing against is defense of fascism. We disagree on almost everything, but absolutely not fascism.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 17 hours ago
Free speech is free speech. The only justifiable limitation is harm, not mere offense. While fascism is harmful, their speech merely offends. Only they, their violence, threats, & appeal to force can be justifiably suppressed, not their merely offensive opinions.
If anything, your tact is counterproductive, because it robs everyone the open discourse necessary to observe the reasons against fascism & their effective articulation to discredit fascist rhetoric. People need practice to hone their abilities to deliberate & articulate themselves effectively. Relying on dogma, taboo, & censorship leads to brittle thinkers & incompetent defenders of righteous causes.
Moreover, their remark of “disagreeing about ICE” (as outlandish as it seems to me) doesn’t automatically make them a fascist. You’re making somewhat of a leap here. Do you know the US is full of douches?
Impoliteness is ineffective & unskilled at discrediting bad positions. Having reason on your side & articulating it effectively makes a more resounding (& satisfying) defeat.
Then you boldly played yourself & deluded yourself into “victory”.
Seems you’re raising an etymological fallacy. Unless you’re psychic, you don’t know what the commenter truly believes & no one needs to declare/imply/admit they’re playing devil’s advocate to do so.[^lemmy-sucks]
Exposing someone’s hypocrisy over the principle of free speech by eliciting a response just as the commenter had fits the definition exactly.
That’s up to you. We’re on Lemmy: nothing you do here does anything to oppose fascism. The fight against fascism is out there where the fascists are. I’m not even sure the commenter is advocating fascism: I think they were just luring you into a trap to expose your lack of principle regarding free speech. All we’re doing here is exchanging insignificant words.
On the contrary, exclusion instead of correction is a mistake that got us here. Before we got complacent, we dealt with idiots by legitimately discrediting their rhetoric in open discourse & advocating better ideas. Before deplatforming began, the problem was more manageable. Relying on censorship to knock them off platforms fanned the flames: their persecution complex feels justified with “liberal social media” against them, and by forming separate platforms where their rhetoric goes unchallenged, they can radicalize themselves & organize to defeat the liberal system “persecuting” them. Civic disengagement, apathy in our political system didn’t help either.
The same complacency that got us here won’t get us out. Censorship is incompetent advocacy.
[^lemmy-sucks]: Especially on here: prefatory explanations for any move Lemmy could maliciously interpret in the worst way possible (which is all of them) gets exhausting & inspires defiance.
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 16 hours ago
Strongly disagree. Their speech moves other people to commit acts of violence, appeals to force, etc.
The reasons against tolerating fascism are extremely simple and don’t need much debate: it is as simple as that fascists aim to dominate and eliminate basically anyone except for themselves.
Like we can debate the parameters of fascism, the history of fascism, hell even the justifications used for fascism throughout history, but we first have to agree that fascism is bad. And unfortunately, I live in a country where people don’t even agree on this anymore.
Yes it is lol, I’ve been here my whole godforsaken life and I will probably die in this shithole country 🙃
Yes, and when I’m doing an ordinary debate, I try to be polite and open-minded. But there are a very small minority of topics that I’m just not willing to debate, like whether or not you can have my wallet (you can’t, not debating it), whether or not I deserve to be shot (I don’t, not debating it), or whether or not we should tolerate fascism (we shouldn’t, not debating it), for the simple reason that “losing” that “debate” results in death and destruction and misery.
…yeah I know with pretty good probability what that commenter truly believes, especially based on his follow-up responses. I already knew the moment I commented. I’ve met a thousand dumb fucks like him with identical opinions, and I’m sure I’m gonna meet a thousand more 🙃.
Let me make explicit what I have only been implying: I clocked that dude as a piece of shit immediately and responded in kind. Now I know I’m not perfect at reading people, but I gotta work with what I got, and at least in this case, I nailed it. And I clocked you as a decent person, and I’m responding in kind.
Respectfully, hard disagree. Fascists used real concerns about censorship as cudgels, as they use every rhetorical tool, to barge into spaces where otherwise, their ideas would be absolutely obliterated.
I.e., no matter how good at debating you get, you cannot win a debate with a fascist. By putting fascist ideas on the same pedestal as your own ideas, you have already lost, because the fascist will simply use that platform as a cudgel to bully you and advocate for your oppression.
muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com 17 hours ago
Its not propaganda its just support for the policy supported by a majority of the american people. And your right ice is backed by the entire unites states military they hold an absolute monopoly on violence. Be greatful they have not decided to use it and go full Tiananmen square in ur ass. Cos they sure as shit could and with the way ur acting why wouldnt people laugh just like u did when Charlie kirk died. If u celebrate the death of others for their political options why should others have empathy for you? Pick a side empathy for your enemies and u shall receive empathy if you die or laugh at ur enemies deaths and don’t be surprised when people celebrate yours.
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 16 hours ago
Bro conservatives have been celebrating the deaths of leftists, liberals, and even moderate conservatives for fucking decades, fuck off with this empathy bullshit, we’re WAY past the point of them having empathy for people
muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com 17 hours ago
Mate I think u might have bit too much critical thinking skills for lemmy. You might get banned for not siding with the lemmy hive mind if u keep acting like this.