If ICE tried to verify their account on Lemmy it would be permabanned instantly
Comment on Bluesky just verified ICE
Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 3 weeks ago
(Not American here)
While i agree fediverse is then solution and i don’t use bluesky, i don’t see the issue is recognizing ICE as verified.
After all ice is a government agency of the USA whether you like it or not, and should be verified if there is a procedure to do so.
No i don’t like ice and i do not condone what they do, but that doesn’t change the above statement.
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
The nature of FOSS allows anyone to use free software like Lemmy and Mastodon. ICE could therefore join by making their own instance or joining a friendly one but it’d be defederated by most others.
The great thing about fediverse is that everyone gets a voice and we can choose who to listen to.
balsoft@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Truth Social is running Mastodon under the hood. But nobody considers it a part of the fediverse, because even if it had federation turned on it would instantly be defederated by 99% of instances.
I’m sure there are nazi lemmy instances out there, but they are all defederated from the lemmyverse. This is the correct approach, decentralized platforms are somehow doing a better job at this then the de-facto centralized bsky.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
As is GAB
LordXDnl@literature.cafe 3 weeks ago
I wonder if that is acutally better though
balsoft@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
It is a lot better. If you let Nazis join your platform, your platform is now a Nazi bar. Ban them, don’t let them spread their propaganda.
iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They still can’t post shit against the general instance rules. So they’d have to be very careful of get the nuisance of getting their posts constantly removed, and eventually banned. No need to make individual distinctions when the general rules already work.
Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 3 weeks ago
I don’t ban anyone or any instance in my own instance, so no they cannot be “parammanned” from Lemmy. That’s not how it works and why i like Lemmy and its principles.
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Find out how long your Lemmy instance stays federated with the rest of the big instances once you start hosting Nazis
Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 3 weeks ago
You don’t get it: I am and will remain the only user of my instance…
Do you even now how Lemmy works? Did I say I was going to let ICE people create users on my instance? I only said I don’t defederate any instance.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Might depend what instance. They wouldn’t try to verify on db0 because yes, they would be banned instantly with prejudice. They would probably just hop on Lemmy.world or something.
Furthermore, it would be better if the US Government just put up their own instance. Let each instance decide whether or not to federate with them, and let users decide if they want to follow them or not.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
Probbly not at the mgtow Lemmy instance.
Dojan@pawb.social 3 weeks ago
You know that the problem isn’t that they’re verifying the gestapo, it’s that they’re platforming and subsequently legitimising them.
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Eh. I don’t use bsky, and think most current ICE staff should be imprisoned for terrorism for the rest of their lives, but I don’t want any communications services to decide which entities should and shouldn’t be verified.
The goal should be an open protocol where users/orgs can sign messages cryptographically (like PGP) and every other user can decide which users, feeds, or algos they subscribe to without censorship. Like, if I subscribe to my friends and family, or friends of friends, I don’t want any form of moderation between them and me, but the freedom to sub to moderated topics is also necessary for public feeds/comms.
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
On one hand I see your point. On t’other, we’ve tried complete neutrality and it failed, maybe it’s time for a communications platform where we hold people to a standard?
Serinus@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
We haven’t, really. Our “complete neutrality” is infested with troll farms, where people are employed to make hundreds of accounts to spread propaganda.
I’m thinking the answer is to implement a huge barrier for troll farms, but a small speed bump for real people.
It could be oauth with Steam or your cell provider, where you can make an account if you’ve spent over $250 with them. Actual credit history would work. You can combine these and allow any of them, which might let one person make 3-4 accounts, maybe, but that’s still limited enough to make things difficult for troll farms.
There is an issue where billionaires that want to influence us have absolutely absurd resources, and maybe paying $1000 per account isn’t enough of a barrier for them. But at least it gives us a chance for the bans to stick significantly more than they do now.
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Who’s we? You think you get to decide? Unless the protocol is 100% open source, decentralised, user controlled by default, and resistant to censorship, the oligarchs and corporations will ALWAYS be able to seize control and use it against us.
If you genuinely think the solution is yet another billionaire controlled closed platform, a bunch of bootlicking gatekeepers to censor and moderate it, that can be sold, transferred, and monetised in any way, at any time… welp, the modern tech world must be an enigma to you.
edible_funk@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Nah balls to that. This is simple paradox of tolerance shit, anti-social ideology doesn’t get a platform in the marketplace of ideas.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
Nah, misinterpretation. Censorship doesn’t stop shit. Suppression of intolerance means stopping it through coercion or criminalization.
Moreover, intolerance doesn’t mean the baby-brained notion on the internet of espousing offensive, exclusionary views. The nonviolent & noncoercive are still tolerant. Intolerance means rejection of rational discourse through appeal to force: coercive/violent action or incitement of it to overthrow a tolerant society.
Karl Popper opposed censorship/argued for free inquiry & open discourse.
Censorship (or willfully blinding ourselves to information) plays no part in suppressing authoritarianism, and it’s extremely moronic to pretend it does.
lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 3 weeks ago
So you want a Nazi bar. Ok.
Omnipitaph@reddthat.com 3 weeks ago
That’s a nice strawman you’ve built for yourself. What’s their name?
Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 3 weeks ago
Wake up. Ice, being government, it’s already legitimized enough in real life.
What difference would it make in the social media. Better if they are out in the open in social media instead, at least they get responsible for what they post, officially.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Apparently you slept through a fascist dictator rising to power by manipulating desperate people, specifically on social media.
stabby_cicada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
ripcord@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Like the white house, department of homeland security, and others before them, the account will get no traction and be ignored. It is currently working really well on bluesky.
When they mandate visibility a la Twitter, that is the problem. But they don’t.
damnedfurry@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You could make that argument about them being allowed to have an account at all, but simply marking that account in such a way that informs the userbase that it’s not a troll/parody account or something, but the actual organization?
That doesn’t “platform” them, they’re already on the platform at the time this happened. And confirming that something asserted to be true, is in fact true, is a good thing.