Comment on we need more users

daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

• squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Because Lemmy, to this day, doesn’t do what Reddit does. Yes, the UI is similar, but there’s two big downsides to Reddit. One that’s important now, and one that’s important later.

  • Lemmy is tiny. Like, really small. The Linus Tech Tips form and the Crackberry forum each have more users and more activity than all of Lemmy combined. That means, you can talk about general things of Lemmy, like e.g. US politics, but there aren’t a lot of niche communities. On Reddit I can post a photo with some weird electronics component from the 60s and within minutes someone will post an answer identifying the component and telling me where to buy a replacement. On Lemmy, a corresponding community doesn’t even exist.
  • Lemmy scales terribly. Every instance holds a copy of all data that was ever posted in any community that any user on that instance ever subscribed to. That has two very negative effects: – Storage requirements are insane. Since most traffic is in big communities and most users will subscribe to the big communities, most instances need to store a copy of almost all of Lemmy. If Lemmy were to ever get to the size of Reddit, every instance would have to store data in the order of magnitude of all of Reddit. Imagine small hobby admins having to host data in the region of Petabytes or Exabytes. Nobody can afford that. – Admin work is insane. Since every instance holds a full, independent copy and doesn’t only cache, they are legally responsible for the content and have to moderate it. So if someone posts e.g. illegal pornography on one instance and it’s federated to another instance, the admin of the second instance needs to delete it or face legal consequences. That means, instead of the mods or admins of the original community/instance being solely responsible for keeping their stuff clean, everyone is responsible for everything and the same work needs to be done hundreds of times, once per instance.

  This horrible scalability means that right now instances are getting close to their limits (see e.g. lemm.ee closing down exactly due to these reasons).

  Lemmy has 40-50k monthly active users. Reddit has 5.16 billion monthly active users, so about 100 000x. If everyone on Reddit were to move over to Lemmy, Lemmy would be done. Just one day of Reddit-level traffic would be enough to jam up the history of Lemmy content so much that nobody could ever afford hosting a Lemmy instance again.

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  • Butterphinger@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I don’t know if you’ve convinced me to stay or go, but you’ve certainly convinced me of either or.

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    • squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Wasn’t trying to convince anyone of anything. Just offering a reality check.

      Lemmy vs Reddit is like this meme where the one side says “I hate you” and the other side says “Who are you?” (or was it “I don’t even think of you”, can’t remember).

      Lemmy is cool. It being small has benefits and I like the political direction here much more than on Reddit. I like that most people I interact with on Lemmy genuinely are humans. On Reddit, that’s much more difficult to be certain of.

      But Lemmy is not Reddit, it’s not a Reddit alternative, it’s not even a Reddit competitor. It’s a nice little niche forum, a little anti-capitalist experiment, that kinda copied the UI and UX of old Reddit. That’s totally fine and it’s got it’s value. Otherwise I wouldn’t have >3000 comments on this platform.

      But it’s a factor of 100 000x off of being on the radar of Spez and his crew.

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  • Skavau@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Admin work is insane. Since every instance holds a full, independent copy and doesn’t only cache, they are legally responsible for the content and have to moderate it. So if someone posts e.g. illegal pornography on one instance and it’s federated to another instance, the admin of the second instance needs to delete it or face legal consequences. That means, instead of the mods or admins of the original community/instance being solely responsible for keeping their stuff clean, everyone is responsible for everything and the same work needs to be done hundreds of times, once per instance.

    Eh, if the original instance removes the CSAM - the ban and removal federates out to everywhere else, so this isn’t always true.

    As for the scaling of Lemmy - absolutely, but it’ll never get to Reddit sized levels.

    This horrible scalability means that right now instances are getting close to their limits (see e.g. lemm.ee closing down exactly due to these reasons).

    That’s not why lemm.ee closed down. It wasn’t financial.

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    • squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Eh, if the original instance removes the CSAM - the ban and removal federates out to everywhere else, so this isn’t always true.

      But if it doesn’t, then other instances removing the content on their side doesn’t federate. So you can either trust every instance that you federate with with your legal security, or you will have to moderate everything yourself as well, just in case someone missed something.

      Down the line, the answer here would be for the federative structure to change so that an instance only hosts its own local content, and doesn’t need duplicate content viewed from external instances.

      This would be extremely important, but I don’t know if such a low level conceptual change can still be performed with a reasonable amount of work. Remember, for such a change you need to get every instance on board. That would be difficult now, and only more difficult later.

      Tbh, it would have been much smarter if the setup would be basically a bunch of independent phpBB-like boards with federated single-sign-on and an app that transparently connects you to whatever instance hosts the content you are looking at.

      That’s not why lemm.ee closed down. It wasn’t financial.

      No, it was specifically because of the moderation issue: lemmy.ca/post/45390962

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      • Skavau@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        But if it doesn’t, then other instances removing the content on their side doesn’t federate. So you can either trust every instance that you federate with with your legal security, or you will have to moderate everything yourself as well, just in case someone missed something.

        Sure, you’re right there - but an instance that kept having problems with removing CSAM would find itself defederated.

        This would be extremely important, but I don’t know if such a low level conceptual change can still be performed with a reasonable amount of work. Remember, for such a change you need to get every instance on board. That would be difficult now, and only more difficult later.

        Well it would be built in from Lemmy or Piefed. The devs would have to spearhead it. But were the load ever to get to that point, I suspect that would be the obvious move.

        No, it was specifically because of the moderation issue: https://lemmy.ca/post/45390962

        Yes, so not financial. You seemed to be implying it was financial.

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• Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Because reddit coddles nazis and lemmy doesn’t.

  Also niche communities exist on reddit that lemmy doesn’t have the population to support.

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  • dudesss@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I disagree. If Lemmy was plagued with Nazis, it would down the shitter pretty fast.

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    • Tattorack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      We got tankies on here, though. Not much better.

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      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Too bad centrists think everyone with any criticism whatsoever of anything they do is a tankie.

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      • dudesss@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        What’s a tankie and what makes them close to Nazis?

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    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I don’t want nazis here either and I’m glad that lemmy remains hostile to them. I was responding to someone who asked why people stayed on reddit. Given reddit’s userbase, they’re staying because they’re welcome. We shouldn’t welcome nazis.

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  • Arrhenius@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Not true. I’m pro Trump, pro ICE and pretty transphobic/homophobic, all those stuff that you liberals consider nazism, but I get banned all the time.

    Truth is that any opinion that may offend anyone is banned on reddit. Reddit is gone

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• Incipient8647@leminal.space ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Lemmy is great in the techy/gaming, memes, and news/politics fields, but doesn’t have strong secondary communities. I no longer have a reddit account but still lurk to keep up with news focused in Ukraine, Japan, Korea, music, history, minecraft, etc.

  Also, social media uses the same tactics as casinos to keep people hooked. I remember a podcast in which they compared the new algorithms to slot machines where sometimes you “win” by getting content you’re looking for, sometimes you lose by getting fed random crap you didn’t search, and mostly you break even & get fed the same repetitive crap (this makes the times you “win” seam more rewarding.) Social media is an addiction and cancerous to modern society.

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• Bazell@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I think the reason is similar with Windows and Linux.

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  • Arrhenius@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Linux is actually a superior operating system with real benefits.

    Lemmy’s only benefit is more freedom of speech, which is valuable, but lemmy’s userbase is so much smaller that it’s kinda meaningless

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    • Bazell@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Personally, I like the smaller userbase. Higher levels of freedom speech are still valuable even if only 1000 people may see your post/comment, rather than having you blocked by incompetent AI filter with no way to fight back.

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• lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Reddit is bots. People are on tiktok or Instagram or whatever.

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