Comment on Quick post about AI-free FireFox Based Browsers (Keep your Adds and avoid the Bloat)
hubobes@sh.itjust.works 6 hours ago
And at some point someone will tell me what is so horrifying about these new features? Mozilla might be the only company trying to provide privacy first AI features. What exactly is so bad here? You can even disable these features if you do not like them at all.
Mozilla is still the only company maintaining an alternative to Chromium. Without Firefox you can’t have Librewolf or other alternatives.
Mozilla is not perfect but people really need to stop treating them in a purely binary fashion (you are either horrible or are perfect).
The problem is that they’re pushing it without any way for those of us who really don’t want that crap to strip it out of the browser. Sure, one can disable it, but I’ve already had some of it reenabled in updates. I don’t want it, and don’t plan on wanting it. At best, these functionalities should be opt-in and presented as addons that can be installed, rather than being a core part of the browser that cannot be removed.
It is opt in. Or will be. And they’re adding an AI switch.
Not disagreeing with you, just adding context.
The bigger problem is that they’re wasting their finite resources on this crap instead of adding actually cool features like their forks are doing.
They keep saying their ai features will be opt-in, and yet everything they’ve rolled out so far is opt-out. I struggle to believe future ‘features’ will be any different. Maybe it’s opt-in in the sense that I don’t have to click whichever button activates it, like whatever they added to the context menu, but that’s not really what opt-in means and degrades my trust in Mozilla.
I’m also frustrated by their seeming inability to focus on their core browser product and building a popular competitor to chromium browsers instead of going off on side quests.
I do not want the dev tools and neither the Extension framework, can I get rid of those? No? Being able to completely disable the features is not enough how? How does the code laying bare on your harddisk get in your way of using FX? They already promised a kill-switch. And you saying it turned on after an update is but an anecdote.
You asked, and I gave my opinion. All this AI bullshit has done and continues to do significant damage to the global economy and ecology, god forbid I have a problem with that or any company contributing to it.
Dev tools doesn’t require a data center to run. Your comparison is flawed and suggests an ill-informed opinion about this topic.
I feel like you’re just here to piss into the wind.
Do you hear people screaming to disable the extension frame work or devtools?
No?
If you don’t want those features you can compile your own version of Firefox and remove them.
But lots of people are anti-AI. And there are people willing to provide a browser that keeps it out.
If you want it, have at it. But don’t piss on people just because they don’t.
I’ll try to give an out-of-the-loop answer to this, if that helps. Concerning “AI” tools, I think the chunk of people who don’t want it included in the browser on any level come in one or both of two forms. One is a moral opposition – for example, a pro-environmental or pro-artist stance. I don’t think those need much explanation, but feel free to say otherwise.
The other is in my opinion is in response to exhaustion. Pro-“AI” features have proven themselves to be untrustworthy at nearly every turn with thoughtless or downright irresponsible implementations. A worthwhile use-case is the exception rather than the norm and It’s tiring to have to constantly check if this time I want it on or not. As a result of opt-in-by-default changes to privacy policies or account settings, my trust in any site or app publishing an “AI” implementation has been broken and it’s nice to have options I don’t have to worry about wherever I can get them. I found it irritatingly tone-deaf that Mozilla wasn’t considering a kill-switch with their first swing at this.
If it seems unreasonable or hard-to-understand, I think taking a step back and looking at the broader software industry rather than just Mozilla will help.
I don’t know others but for me, it’s the constant bugging with their users. I’ve used Firefox since the beginning, and they have made bad choices before, but this is the last straw. I’m tired of circumventing these choices, sometimes doing so is not even that transparent as a “kill switch” and users had to find strings in a cryptic about::config page, for example.
More important, I don’t want so-called AI in my life. I couldn’t care less about it. I won’t use it unless it helps me to find some scientific conclusion that advances our culture, and I’m not talking something huge, I’m not saying it shouldn’t be used at all. However, any use of AI for cotidian achievable tasks is morally unacceptable for me, and I’d ask for everyone a space for reflection on whether it is something filling a necessity in their lives. So, I guess it’s a rupture for me with Mozilla. I can’t use their product because I find it fundamentally wrong to support the massive use of technologies that barely do any good to society, and none to the planet. It’s not about another little discrepancy on features and settings, it’s about not giving people like me the platform to shout “fuck it, I don’t want it, stop it now”.
Mozilla might be the only company trying to provide privacy first AI features.
They are not. There are boatloads of privacy friendly “AI” implementations, they just aren’t very high profile.
But I do think people are over-reacting. This is a less bad approach. And if you can turn it off and leave it off, what’s the big deal?
Considering Windows is basically saying “we’re going to switch what we’ve always been and become an agenic OS, you will just talk to it and Microsoft Cloud will interpret your will (only $89 a month!)”, people are rightly scared about having all technology rug-pulled from under us.
Mozilla was one of the shining beacons of FOSS that allowed users choice and stability against corporate greed. Are you surprised that people are angry that they’re caving to the same toxic greedy behavior?
No. They should be worried. It’s pretty clear Mozilla’s leadership has “AI fever” that every CEO seems to be going mad with.
Still though, people need to take a breath. This isn’t Microsoft. And Mozilla’s “local first” approach is quite interesting (even if the reality is that hardware isn’t ready for stuff outside of lightweight tasks).
There is no such thing as a privacy first AI, unless you’ve the hardware to run the model yourself (and, you don’t).
There different kinds of AI and some run just fine locally or even on mobile. Not everything is a big LLM.
slampisko@lemmy.world 40 minutes ago
The other day I watched this video and I think it makes a very good case. subscribeto.me/w/7qSsYEPM2aC3D6stdZ54nq (the website is the author’s peertube instance)