Comment on E-bike rules in Australia will soon change with possible ban on sale of bikes faster than 25km/h

• yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  but it doesn’t cut it for every day use

  Can you explain why? Sure, it’s less than 500 W and there will necessarily be situations where it’s not enough. But how would you know it’s insufficient for every day use without trying? If it were, say, 99% as effective it would (probably) be fine, no?

  Unless of course you have experience with a 250 W ebike but (from your comments) it looks like you only ever had a single 500 W ebike. Is it possible to limit it to 250 W and seeing how much it changes?

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  • Zagorath@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Can you explain why?

    Look at the comparison I did elsewhere in the thread. One hill I know of and have climbed many times, going up at just 12 km/h, I’m putting out over 500 W at some points. And that’s on a carbon analogue bike, as a lighter-than-average dude, carrying nothing more than a bottle of water. I’m out of the saddle, working my arse off to get up that hill.

    As a cycling advocate, that’s unacceptably difficult. Great for when cycling for fun or fitness, but as an advocate, I do not want people to have to exert themselves that much just to get around. I try to set a baseline effort of 100 W, but up to 200 W for brief periods is not unreasonable. 250 W (plus a 250 W motor) when climbing up a hill even with the lightest possible load, which would easily become 500+ W (plus the 250 W motor) on the way home from shopping or transporting kids to their cricket training, is not reasonable. I want cycling to be accessible to as many people as possible. It has the potential to be a far more accessible form of transport than driving is, if our network design and laws allow it to be. A Dutch-style network is by far the most important thing and would work for 80%+ of potential cyclists, 60%ish of the time.

    But to get that last 20% of cyclists 100% of the time, laws designed for the famously flat Netherlands are not necessarily appropriate. And that could include allowing up to 500 W motors. Especially with the NSW law, which states the power must be

    progressively reduced as the bicycle’s speed increases beyond 6km/h.

    So (assuming it’s linear), at 16 km/h you’d be getting about 250 W of assistance, maximum. At 20 km/h you’re down to 132 W, and at 23 km/h it’s just 52 W. To do that 12 km/h up the hill I was talking about, you’d get about 340 W of assistance, or go down to 10 km/h and get 390 W, plus 1–200 W from your legs, which should be enough to get an older or less physically capable cyclist up the hill with their shopping or (grand)kids.

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  • ada@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Yeah, my current bike has a power scale setting. Adjusting the pedal assist directly adjusts the max power output. And at the 250W level, I work up a sweat whenever I push it.

    Which, again, is fine, if the bike is just for exercise or commuting. But it stops it from being a viable car replacement.

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• Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I used mine in part to move house, as well as regularly dragging reno supplies, groceries and my own fat arse. I am regularly using it to haul. Extremely regularly. And in no way a fit person or spring chicken myself

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  • ada@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I run. I cycle. My road bike has 15,000km on it. But I can’t do the things I need to do on a 250W ebike easily enough for it to replace a car in my daily life.

    I could do all of the things you’re talking about if my goal was to give myself a workout, but when the goal is to use it instead of a car, 250W doesn’t cut it, because I’d be dripping in sweat and worn out half the time.

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    • Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      it’s not supposed to be a car. I don’t know why you think it is.

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      • ada@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        you don’t need to be condescending to get your point across. We’re having a discussion and disagreeing, . The first sentence would have got your point across just fine.

        In any case, I know it’s not a car. But at the moment, my ebike means I don’t need a car. I want a bike that lets me get through life without having to own a car. A 250W would mean that I’d have to call taxis and ubers more often to carry shopping, it would mean that I couldn’t just carry the mulch home on my bike.

        I mean, I could do those things, but at 250W, I’m putting in a lot of the power myself. And I’ve already got my exercise covered. I don’t need to be changing clothes and taking a shower every time I ride up a hill on my bike.

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