So Vader is an all powerful empath who can sense all kinds of shit over lightyears but he can be immediately thwarted if someone lied to him 20 years ago?
Oh that’s 100% what it is. People complain about the Sequel Trilogy for ‘not having a plan’ but they also seem to be purposefully ignoring the fact that nothing in Star Wars was planned. The power levels for everyone are so stupidly inconsistent that you can’t keep track. Vader is, in effect, a fucking God according to everything we’ve seen him in. With all the canon additions like Rebels, Jedi: Survivor, Kenobi, and all the comics we’re seeing him at a power level thats, forgive the meme, over 9000.
Then A New Hope starts and he’s a wet fish with no abilities at all and doesn’t know how to swing a lightsaber. Kenobi says “Strike me down and i’ll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine”. Meanwhile that apparently translates to “I’ll show up as a force ghost a couple of times and help in no way whatsoever”. Yoda is a little grumpy gremlin in the Original Trilogy but is playing War Crimes Ping Pong in the Prequels/Clone Wars while being devastatingly powerful.
The writing for Star Wars just sucks because they keep focusing on the same 15 years before A New Hope. They’ve added so much to Canon that by the time you hit the Original Trilogy everything suddenly downgrades massively. At least Star Trek stayed consistent with its prequel stuff. Enterprise added a few extras, Discovery and Strange New Worlds expanded on some, but none of them created tech so stupidly powerful that it undoes everything in Trek after that point. You could argue the Spore Drive but at least Season 2 gives a solid reason as to why it never appeared in later Trek. There’s no excuse for why Vader goes from someone who can force choke people in orbit to a dude who can’t swing a fucking lightsaber without making it look like he’s using 99% of his effort to move in that suit.
Here’s my cool guess: Maybe he can sense her, but she was introduced to him as an important political figure first, which caused a blindspot in identifying any personal relevance she may have to him. Luke was sensed without any context because he was actively training?
Rogue One shatters that. At the end of the movie, we see Vader rip apart a bunch of rebels who are getting information to Leia. It ends minutes before A New Hope begins. Vader then shows up on Leias ship and immediately starts ripping into her. Whether Vader knew about her prior to this encounter, it shouldn’t matter. She is now a known ally of the Rebellion. He’s been known to squeeze information out of anyone with no hesitation, being able to sense their intent from miles away, but she completely bluffs him? This young woman who he knows is a rebel? He’s the leader of the Inquisitors. His whole deal is finding people who are force sensitive and then either killing or turning them. He’s been training people for years, able to sense levels of force sensitivity in them that the person isn’t even aware of.
People complain about NuTrek breaking established canon but there’s literally no example of it. Meanwhile Star Wars has written itself into such an extreme corner that their movies no longer make sense.
How did she bluff Vader? He took her and tortured and interrogated her, he didn’t fall for her lie. And she didn’t even know she was his daughter at the time, so why would he have sensed that?
I read an interview with Dave Filoni. He basically said that what he’s trying to fix with all the Star Wars shows on Disney+. He’s trying to fill in the major plot holes and stuff the writers left vague, and make the movies at least somewhat reasonable.
As a nerd, I appreciate the effort, but he’s got a LOT of work to do.
My guess was always that she was an active Force user, but since she didn't spend a lot of time around other Force users, she learned to use her power defensively (being taught to hide from enemies as a child).
So she developed a natural "cloaking" effect, which she cultivated over time, and used to keep hiding from people (her father, the Empire) during her various escapades, so by the time she met Vader all her skill points were dumped into Hide in Plain Sight.
...and since why would Vader bother taking a second look at the Force presence of a random Senator's daughter...
I think a better suggestion is that she was weakened by the stun blaster. Leia hadn’t developed her force powers much at all at that point, so being in a weakened state could lead Vader to thinking nothing much of her. His child would be incredibly powerful, of course.
Honestly I believe “20 years of hatred fueled by the belief that both of your children are dead clouds your perception” over “well she got stun gunned recently” lol
I don’t buy that. He’s the leader of the Inquisitors. His whole thing is dealing with people who are force sensitive and either killing them or turning them. Also, thanks to George Lucas, there’s another major sticking point. Midichlorians. Vader would have been able to sense them in her regardless of being stunned or even conscious.
People in general are really bad at reconsidering life-defining events under a different light, impulsive people most of all, so it’s not out of character for Vader to ignore any instincts that tell him there’s a connection between him and Leia.
Vader could likely sense that Leia had some latent Force Sensitivity, but so do a lot of people. The inquisitors only cared if they were former Jedi or Jedi in training.
He also didn’t realize Luke, whom he almost killed at the end of the movie, was his son either. At least not immediately.
Since Luke still called himself “Skywalker”, it was pretty easy for him to put 2-and-2 together after the Death Star event. He had to read Luke’s mind on the second Death Star to figure out that he even had a daughter (Anakin did not know Padme was having twins, so he never bothered to search for another child after Luke) and even then he still doesn’t know it was Leia Organa, he only refers to her as “your sister”.
Obviously the precognition that comes from being an adept user of the Force doesn’t allow you to simply pluck knowledge from thin air.
Yeahhhhhh see there’s your problem. You’re taking Star Wars lore too literally. Don’t you know you can’t take every little thing Star Wars adds and assume its actually supposed to make any sense other than “this sounds cool”?
I think ‘foresaw his wife’s pained death, choked her out in a fit of rage a lava planet, then woke up and felt her death’ is bit more convincing evidence his kids didn’t make it than ‘someone lied to him’.
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
So Vader is an all powerful empath who can sense all kinds of shit over lightyears but he can be immediately thwarted if someone lied to him 20 years ago?
Not the take you think it is.
panchzila@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Jedi powers kept changing from movie to movie, so its more inconsistent writing than anything else.
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
Oh that’s 100% what it is. People complain about the Sequel Trilogy for ‘not having a plan’ but they also seem to be purposefully ignoring the fact that nothing in Star Wars was planned. The power levels for everyone are so stupidly inconsistent that you can’t keep track. Vader is, in effect, a fucking God according to everything we’ve seen him in. With all the canon additions like Rebels, Jedi: Survivor, Kenobi, and all the comics we’re seeing him at a power level thats, forgive the meme, over 9000.
Then A New Hope starts and he’s a wet fish with no abilities at all and doesn’t know how to swing a lightsaber. Kenobi says “Strike me down and i’ll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine”. Meanwhile that apparently translates to “I’ll show up as a force ghost a couple of times and help in no way whatsoever”. Yoda is a little grumpy gremlin in the Original Trilogy but is playing War Crimes Ping Pong in the Prequels/Clone Wars while being devastatingly powerful.
The writing for Star Wars just sucks because they keep focusing on the same 15 years before A New Hope. They’ve added so much to Canon that by the time you hit the Original Trilogy everything suddenly downgrades massively. At least Star Trek stayed consistent with its prequel stuff. Enterprise added a few extras, Discovery and Strange New Worlds expanded on some, but none of them created tech so stupidly powerful that it undoes everything in Trek after that point. You could argue the Spore Drive but at least Season 2 gives a solid reason as to why it never appeared in later Trek. There’s no excuse for why Vader goes from someone who can force choke people in orbit to a dude who can’t swing a fucking lightsaber without making it look like he’s using 99% of his effort to move in that suit.
KevonLooney@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Have you seen Klingons?
dwindling7373@feddit.it 1 year ago
At that point she’s is not his daughter in the script itself. And he is not absurdly powerful as portrayed later by fans and prequels.
He’s an angry evil space monk.
StellarTabi@hexbear.net 1 year ago
Here’s my cool guess: Maybe he can sense her, but she was introduced to him as an important political figure first, which caused a blindspot in identifying any personal relevance she may have to him. Luke was sensed without any context because he was actively training?
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
Rogue One shatters that. At the end of the movie, we see Vader rip apart a bunch of rebels who are getting information to Leia. It ends minutes before A New Hope begins. Vader then shows up on Leias ship and immediately starts ripping into her. Whether Vader knew about her prior to this encounter, it shouldn’t matter. She is now a known ally of the Rebellion. He’s been known to squeeze information out of anyone with no hesitation, being able to sense their intent from miles away, but she completely bluffs him? This young woman who he knows is a rebel? He’s the leader of the Inquisitors. His whole deal is finding people who are force sensitive and then either killing or turning them. He’s been training people for years, able to sense levels of force sensitivity in them that the person isn’t even aware of.
People complain about NuTrek breaking established canon but there’s literally no example of it. Meanwhile Star Wars has written itself into such an extreme corner that their movies no longer make sense.
WldFyre@lemm.ee 1 year ago
How did she bluff Vader? He took her and tortured and interrogated her, he didn’t fall for her lie. And she didn’t even know she was his daughter at the time, so why would he have sensed that?
magnetosphere@kbin.social 1 year ago
I read an interview with Dave Filoni. He basically said that what he’s trying to fix with all the Star Wars shows on Disney+. He’s trying to fill in the major plot holes and stuff the writers left vague, and make the movies at least somewhat reasonable.
As a nerd, I appreciate the effort, but he’s got a LOT of work to do.
snooggums@kbin.social 1 year ago
Nah, the easy explanation is the Force is fucking with Vader.
flicker@kbin.social 1 year ago
My guess was always that she was an active Force user, but since she didn't spend a lot of time around other Force users, she learned to use her power defensively (being taught to hide from enemies as a child).
So she developed a natural "cloaking" effect, which she cultivated over time, and used to keep hiding from people (her father, the Empire) during her various escapades, so by the time she met Vader all her skill points were dumped into Hide in Plain Sight.
...and since why would Vader bother taking a second look at the Force presence of a random Senator's daughter...
TWeaK@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I think a better suggestion is that she was weakened by the stun blaster. Leia hadn’t developed her force powers much at all at that point, so being in a weakened state could lead Vader to thinking nothing much of her. His child would be incredibly powerful, of course.
BolexForSoup@kbin.social 1 year ago
Honestly I believe “20 years of hatred fueled by the belief that both of your children are dead clouds your perception” over “well she got stun gunned recently” lol
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
I don’t buy that. He’s the leader of the Inquisitors. His whole thing is dealing with people who are force sensitive and either killing them or turning them. Also, thanks to George Lucas, there’s another major sticking point. Midichlorians. Vader would have been able to sense them in her regardless of being stunned or even conscious.
jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
People in general are really bad at reconsidering life-defining events under a different light, impulsive people most of all, so it’s not out of character for Vader to ignore any instincts that tell him there’s a connection between him and Leia.
Furbag@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Vader could likely sense that Leia had some latent Force Sensitivity, but so do a lot of people. The inquisitors only cared if they were former Jedi or Jedi in training.
He also didn’t realize Luke, whom he almost killed at the end of the movie, was his son either. At least not immediately.
Since Luke still called himself “Skywalker”, it was pretty easy for him to put 2-and-2 together after the Death Star event. He had to read Luke’s mind on the second Death Star to figure out that he even had a daughter (Anakin did not know Padme was having twins, so he never bothered to search for another child after Luke) and even then he still doesn’t know it was Leia Organa, he only refers to her as “your sister”.
Obviously the precognition that comes from being an adept user of the Force doesn’t allow you to simply pluck knowledge from thin air.
there1snospoon@ttrpg.network 1 year ago
Yeahhhhhh see there’s your problem. You’re taking Star Wars lore too literally. Don’t you know you can’t take every little thing Star Wars adds and assume its actually supposed to make any sense other than “this sounds cool”?
/s, but also not really
TWeaK@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Yeah I didn’t say it was a good suggestion, just that it was better lol.
CarbonScored@hexbear.net 1 year ago
I think ‘foresaw his wife’s pained death, choked her out in a fit of rage a lava planet, then woke up and felt her death’ is bit more convincing evidence his kids didn’t make it than ‘someone lied to him’.
x4740N@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It could also depend on the force users mind
vader could have unconsciously ignored his force senses because he believed he didn’t have children