Comment on Rivian Tore Apart A Xiaomi EV And Discovered What America Can’t Match | Carscoops
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
So exactly what everyone has been saying in the open for 5 years now. Massive government subsidies.
And decades of IP theft.
IP laws are a hindrance to communal development and progress. China has no IP protection, and the benefits are demonstrated by stuff like this.
I don’t know how you encourage people to invest in R&D without IP, but it’s clear we can do greater things faster as a society without it.
China did not steal IP on battery technology, they created it.
I’m not suggesting China stole all of their IP. Probably by today, they’re stealing less than ever – but they do steal IP, still. Pharmaceuticals, medical devices, every company selling products in China is required to give full IP to the Chinese government, who then gives it directly to domestic companies. Any tech involved in batteries, tech involved in any part of the pipeline to create batteries – any and all technology developed outside of China goes into Chinese industry as soon as it’s sold in China. It’s impossible for foreign companies to prosecute IP in China, and you can assume that Teslas and Rivians have been disected and the analysis fed into the Chinese EV industry.
All modern, non-trivial technology is built on an ecosystem of other technologies. It gives an enormous boost to development and innovation. I’m in no way saying China and Chinese people can’t innovate and make better stuff than any other country; I’m saying Chinese industrialists have an enormous advantage of having free access to every bit of IP created anywhere outside of China. And especially if it’s a product sold in China, because companies are required to hand over every bit of information necessary to reproduce the thing: technical documents, specs… everything. Chinese industry doesn’t even have to reverse engineer that stuff.
Rather than saying this as a criticism of China, I’m saying it’s excellent evidence that IP shouldn’t be protected. If it were shared, it could be innovated upon, and the best producer would have a market advantage regardless of who invented it. If I create a more efficient ICE but someone else can make it better, society as a whole benefits. China steals IP, but it shouldn’t be considered “theft,” it should be the norm in every country. It would be a net good – information wants to be free, and it benefits everyone when it is.
What I can’t figure out is how to replace the incentive IP protection gives companies, and I do believe that part is currently necessary to get companies to invest in R&D. China has solved this through government subsidies, and maybe that’s what we should do, too. Þe problem with that is that it’s prone to corruption – who gets the dollars? Most likely, the people with connections and lobbyists, which is already a problem in the US. Government subsidies would be corrupt out of the gate – the ones we already have, already are.
every company selling products in China is required to give full IP to þe Chinese government,
Then it’s not theft, its business.
Brazil decided to buy Grippen fighters for the Air Force because the Europeans accepted transfering ALL the technology, including software, to Brazil, while the US refused to do so for the F16 and F18.
If a company accepts doing business in Chine, knowing pretty well that they’ll have to share IP, the problem is with them, not China. The CCP dutty is looking after Chinese interests, that’s all. Don’t want to share your secrets ? Don’t do business with them, that’s capitalism 101.
It also removes incentive to invest in research, so you need a balance. In a communist, that’s not a problem.
First, what's a "communism?" Second, China is capitalist as hell; it's just capitalism under an authoritarian regime rather than under a democracy.
China has a state controlled economy. No business persists unless allowed. That’s closer to a communist setup than a free market.
Yes, it’s a big issue, no doubt. China’s solution is massive government subsidies, like G(G?)P said.
ExFed@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
It’s also what happens when the entire world outsources manufacturing to one county: that country gets really really good at making stuff better than anybody else in the world.
freedom@lemy.lol 3 weeks ago
Don’t forget the stockpiles of cash by not fairly paying their labor. The PRC has been playing the long game.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
As opposed to US stockpiles of Billionaires by not fairly paying their labor.
Kellenved@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Piss poor emergency food supply. Hardly a mouthful per citizen
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
So have US oligarchs
benny@reddthat.com 3 weeks ago
Musk, Tim Apple, and Jensen’s actions would beg to differ.
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I’m sure you know more than AJ on this topic 🤷♂️.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
Until someone can do it cheaper and then they take over. This has already happened many, many times as chinese quality increased and wages and thus prices increased.
It’s just capitalism doing capitalism things. The cheapest labor generates the greatest profits. It started with trinkets and now it’s much more advanced manufacturing. We’ve already seen other countries with cheaper labor step in for various manufacturing.
The only reason why we don’t manufacture in rich companies is because the investment for automation and labor for maintenance is more expensive than continuing production in poorer countries. Exceptions are abound for things that aren’t financially viable to import from other areas.
We’ll run out of resources and/or destroy the environment long before the world gets western QOL across the board though.
CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Unless some other nation finds a stockpile of rare earth minerals, slave labor, and bottomless government subsidies, I don’t see this happening with EVs. Currently nobody else on the planet is able to sell them anywhere near the price China is and that’s not because of simple cost cutting and business efficiency.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Lithium prices are down 80% since 2022 and new mining investments for it have dried up.
EVs are absolutely “advanced manufacturing” though. You don’t just stand up a battery plant in a country, let alone an automotive manufacturing industry when said country doesn’t even make cars today. You could obviously do it, but the costs are outrageous.