Comment on Supporting the future of the open web: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

• Blisterexe@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think that kinda weird and bad statement from the ladybird lead makes way more sense when you realize that his first language is german.

  German, like other gendered languages, uses the male gender for an unknown person, using a genderless pronoun like “they” in german is a deliberate political stance that would prompt debate and is unusual and, frankly, weird.

  Given that he apologized and changed it to they later, and no other incident of the sort happened since, I personally am willing to give him the benifit of the doubt.

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  • Quill7513@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    i take less issue with him using gendered pronouns by default than i do with him being overly dismissive of someone trying to adjust the language to be more inclusive.

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    • 4am@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Just remember that from his perspective, you are arguing against grammatical rules that are at the core of his communication experience due to his first language being German.‘so perhaps his initial reaction was confusion because he didn’t understand the angle - he thought he was being inclusive? Maybe?

      I dunno I’m probably playin devil’s advocate without all the information here; I’ve just been resisting making jokes connecting grammatical pedantry to Germany the whole time.

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      • Blisterexe@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Pretty much yeah, he thought he was already being inclusive, and I don’t blame him for doubling down initially given how awful that github thread was

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      • SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        If it’s written in German, I’d agree. In English, no he is just wrong. But perhaps is English just sucks, I don’t know and I don’t care to find out.

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      • SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It’s actually a very contentious grammatical issue in Germany from what I have been told by a German friend. That there is definitely a contingency of people pushing for more gender neutral language and a large amount of pushback from those who think the entire idea is absurd because of how gendered the language is.

        I can see a bit of both sides of the argument. It’s important to make people feel welcomed and not like being a male is the default for everything. On the other hand, language evolves often very slowly and you can’t just force people to change the language entirely overnight. It does sound like much of the pushback is less political in nature and more grammatical as adding neutral phrases to a gendered language becomes quickly a complex task with complex new words. However, some of the pushback is also political in nature, so it’s hard to gauge whether the Ladybird situation was truly political or more grammatical at it’s core.

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    • floop@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      are you still alive, Nazi?

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  • avidamoeba@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    You might be right.

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  • drmoose@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Gendered language is stupid and antiquated and I say this as a native speaker of a gendered language. It’s just such a poor communication design.

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  • warm@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It was pointed out and could have been corrected easily, nobody was accusing them of doing it intentionally. Instead they doubled down, which then did show their views and caused the controversy.

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    • Blisterexe@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      He may have doubled down initially, but he later apologized and changed it.

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      • warm@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        After a large backlash, yes. It's all resolved now and I support the project, we need another browser engine. But to not see the issue at all? Really?

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  • noverby@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    He is actually swedish, so your attempt to excuse his behaviour is simply wrong

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    • Blisterexe@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Could’ve sworn he was german, I don’t know where I got that from. Guess I was wrong

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• kami@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Is it surprising to anyone?

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• teolan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Or maybe servo didn’t mourn the fascist Charlie Kirk enough: This is Ladybird’s Creator.

  At least both projects funded by cloudflare support fascists. Omarchy is by DHH, who is not a good person

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  • avidamoeba@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Or maybe servo didn’t mourn the fascist Charlie Kirk enough: This is Ladybird’s Creator.

    Oh boy. Yeah, that’s pretty clear. Anyone putting Kirk in a positive position as a genuine debater of ideas has crossed the rubicon.

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• sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  They doubled down and showed their true colors. AFAIK they never tried to improve the situation after that.

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