No, this is just Double Genocide Theory, and is a form of Holocaust trivialization. The Nazis brutally oppressed the working class and created a system of industrialized mass murder, the communists oppressed the capitalists and doubled life expectancies, tripled literacy rates, provided free and high quality eduaction and healthcare, and far more.
The idea that the Soviets were anywhere close to as evil as the Nazis requires erasing the Holocaust, and equating the suffering of the small portion of society as the capitalists and Tsarists to the large working class in Germany, both groups were victims in their respective countries but clearly the brutality of the Tsarists and capitalists against the working class is what earned the revolution in the first place.
I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds.
LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Yeah chief I don’t agree with your witticism here.
Call me crazy, but I think people who want to improve the world somewhat based on an economic and sociopolitical analysis of a pretty smart dude who’s work still shapes our economic understanding even in the most pro-capitalist reaganist fringes today do in fact have a few more differences with people who built an ideology based on using a merged government-corporate state apparatus to exterminate jews, queers, slavs etc. to create more living space for their specific ethnicity.
I also think you don’t actually have to pretend like Nazis and communists are equal or even close just to be able to criticize the imperialism and many mistakes and general dysfunction of the USSR, tankies and general bad faith argumentation like in OP probably done by a random putlerist fascist russian shill/bot or like a 14 year old who skimmed a wikipedia info box on dialectics once.
Communists are why we have unions, minimum wage, universal healthcare, welfare, safety nets, 5-day work week etc. Fascists are why we have the Holocaust, and I guess now also no jimmy Kimmel.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Just to clarify, are you calling me a fascist/14 yo/etc? I’m a communist, I organize in real life, I’ve read more than wikipedia, and I’m a working adult. None of what I said that OP is quoting is particularly out of the norm for the Marxist understanding of base and superstructure, and it was all in good faith that I responded, I even clarified more over here. OP seems to be anti-union, anti-safety net, etc and came into a months old comment chain, and I still gave them a clear and coherent overview without copying and pasting dozens of Marx and Engels quotes to make my point.
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
If by “communist” you mean leftists in the west, then yes.
But if by “communist” you mean those who supported USSR and PRC, Lol no, their shit end up failing and USSR’s successor state is now an oligarchy and modern PRC is an authoritarian state-capitalist regime, with most of the negatives of America, but worse. Seriously, I know the US’s labor rights are atrocious, but PRC is a whole another level; no unions, no workplace safety, no overtime bonus, long hours, minimal breaks, most places have zero paid vacation days, and its a stuggle to even get an unpaid sick day. I mean there is a lunar new year bonus (symbolicly representing the boss giving you a Red Envelope), but that doesn’t mean shit when pay is already low, so the its just posturing. And healthcare in mainland China isn’t free, its basically equivalent to the US for the most part, but you also need the money ready for ER, many hospitals make you pay first before getting treatment, not the “bill you later” that the US does.
LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Yes PRC bad. USSR bad.
Buuut, the USSR did have free housing, free healthcare, free bills, free and quality higher ed, plenty jobs in STEM, while yes, also having horrific repressions inside and imperialist ambition outside too.
The successor state of the Soviet Union is as much a product of soviet corruption as it is a product of IMF’s “shock therapy” that forced rapid privatization in the name of capitalism and cuts to public services in a country that was basically near 100% public services, which led to the well connected cashing in their political capital for all the country’s resources, industry and infrastructure, creating the oligarch class and setting up a government to be inevitably influenced by them, and when capitalists control the government the only result is fascism.
zxqwas@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I don’t care so much what the underlying thought is. Millions died when either got into power. Learning from history neither should get another opportunity.
LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Millions are dying now due to the dudes in power now. Billions more are suffering.
I think a better world is worth fighting for.
1141kizzie@thelemmy.club 2 months ago
That was surely done by Nazis, if not what is difference between Nazi & fascist? You are criticizing him for comparing unrealistically then you are doing it yourself
1141kizzie@thelemmy.club 2 months ago
You are saying this like it is very good thing, without any defects. When Society is too used to these safety laws. What do you can do in emergency? You will say it is our birth right, as consequence you will suffer decrease in performance, which may can result in defeat in war. By which your whole society including these benefits will collapse.
Just my guess, because of minimum wage, your country probably is importing immigrants & immigrants students in order to make them work illegally, as cheap labor, natives are not willing to work for cheap, your businesses are going to foreign countries for cheap labor. The whole thing could have been prevented if there would not been strong minimum wage laws. As result work conditions would have suffered but as group you could have increased performance. but probably, in your country, you have no trust in leaders, political parties and organizations. Who would rather get torture than to betray their people. Probably there are not many, Which is result of inferior culture. That’s why you think you always need all these restrains & you assume powerful always take advantage. Or maybe your view of complete lack of hurt is blinding you the damage of all this.
LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Lol I see. Don’t right-wing propaganda shills these days have access to DeepL or something? Your grammar is fucking awful.
Just for the record for lurkers ITT: I am an immigrant and I came to ze west originally on a student visa, no one “imported” me, finding a job was nigh impossible because no we don’t work illegally because the risk of losing a visa is very high and there are strict limits on jobs you can do, when and how long, including both by profession and by income level, often far above median and only if the corpo has the license and paperwork which all cost fuckloads for them, and finding a job out of that limited pool as a fresh grad was hell on earth.
The only reason I could even get to that stage was because my parents were fairly well off and across the 7 or so years before I became independent the costs of immigrating were in the hundreds of thousands on them. I had to leave the nest at 13.
When I started working I had to pay double tax for healthcare through visa fees first, then off my income tax as normal, and it took 13 years to get a permanent residence permit on the “10-year route” due to other hidden requirements during which I lived in permanent fear of deportation, the only reason I did it was genuine fear of persecution in my country of origin for being LGBT due to the fascist government there.
I’m sharing this here because the general public’s idea of immigration is often well - nuts, and completely out of touch with reality of immigrants, so hopefully now if you didn’t know, you know better.
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Not the person you replied to. Just want to share:
I wasn’t born in the US, I came to the US legally and I have citizenship now. I still feel afraid of being denaturalized and deported under this current regime.
It really sucks that my two plausible choices are Authoritarian State-Capitalist PRC, and the other other choice, USA, has now become a Hyrbid Regime undergoing autocratization. Wish I could go to the EU but its unrealistic. There’s just so frequent racism/xenophobia in this country, but I also despise PRC, since people are even more conservative than here in the US. Can’t think of any place that truly feels “home”.