Good points, it is easy forget that a lot of the big IR issues are associated with the US and can have significant knock-on effects as a result. I do find realpolitik quite sickening when applied to human rights issues, though.
Comment on Australia to recognise Palestinians' right 'to a state of their own', PM says
Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 11 hours agoWell, what are the costs of moves like those. I’m working on a moral and humanist calculus, Albanese may be partially working on that, but he’ll also be working from a political calculus.
The US has made it pretty clear that Israel is their favourite protectorate. If, as you say in another comment, we are owned by the US, then does that mean in the heirarchy of protectorates we are lower than Israel and therefore likely to seriously damage our standing with the US by imposing arms sanctions? And what does that mean for Australian military defence? And technology supply?
For one thing, we’d have to be ready for massive and disproportionate responses from the fascists in charge in the US. Is our defence establishment ready for that? Our population psychologically ready for that?
I’m proposing these, not as my values, but to demonstrate that this is more complicated for the politicians than for ordinary people. PK on Politics Now podcast had a good discussion on this last week.
Ilandar@lemmy.today 10 hours ago
Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 10 hours ago
It is. Theres a point in things where you have to say as a nation we’re willing to wear the consequences of our convictions.
Its a shame that i feel that Australians aren’t willing to accept costs like those for what i still believe are broadly held convictions about how we want to live in the world.
Zagorath@aussie.zone 9 hours ago
Its a shame that i feel that Australians aren’t willing to accept costs like those
Aren’t they? Have they been asked? Labor isn’t willing to accept the cost. That isn’t the same thing.
Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 8 hours ago
Until a Government actually takes us down that road i suppose we can’t really know what costs Australians would be willing to endure, so i guess its my hunch.
Ilandar@lemmy.today 9 hours ago
Its a shame that i feel that Australians aren’t willing to accept costs like those for what i still believe are broadly held convictions about how we want to live in the world.
Well I guess that depends a bit on the context, because in this case certainly it seems like most Australians are now quite united in their opinion and its really the politicians who have been dragging their feet. But more broadly I agree, it has been somewhat frustrating to see how willing Australians are to educate themselves on the situation in Gaza and advocate on behalf of Palestinians whilst issues that are actually relevant to the Australian context, like the rights of Indigenous people or asylum seekers, remain areas of widespread ignorance and disinterest. I suppose one of the key differences is that pro-Palestinian advocacy really costs Australians nothing, so for most the opportunity to take a selfish position doesn’t exist. It’s free moral high ground with zero trade-offs.
Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 8 hours ago
I’d argue what is happening in Gaza is very relevent to anybody who believes they benefit from a world system that ‘should’ frown upon neighbours attacking each other. Australians in general i argue fit that bill.
I suppose indigenous rights are more relevant to Australians than whats happening in Gaza, although i’m not sure on that. The fundamental right to live in peace within borders of your community, even if un-recognised, seems to me to be a foundational pillar for indigenous rights to stand upon. In this instance if we don’t stand up against genocide and violations of human rights in Palestine, then it seems hypocritical to stand up for indigenous rights at home.
But the above assumes a faith in an internationalist cause, i think there is a stronger argument, without hypocrisy, if a person determines they have more parochial concerns and values.
I’ve left out the asylum seekers because there is always a very clear motivation to demonise and alienate that group in any society. They are targetted because they can be, and at little to no cost for the attackers. Its bullshit that people don’t see through the carousel of propaganda and lies that wheels around endlessly targetting immigrants. So i suppose its a rights issue, but i think its different from Indigenous rights. Their mix of rights are a result of gaslighting and prejudice. I haven’t explained myself well here, sorry.
pro-Palestinian advocacy really costs Australians nothing, so for most the opportunity to take a selfish position doesn’t exist. It’s free moral high ground with zero trade-offs.
I want to come back to re-read this when i’m in different mental contexts. Its right, but i think it’ll hit different as i consider different actor’s motivations.
Tenderizer@aussie.zone 6 hours ago
Given the experience with Gough Whitlam, the consequences would (presumably) be a near-immediate LNP government that would backtrack on any conviction we demonstrate and further make things worse not just for Palestine but for Australians.
Alternatively the consequences could be being cut out of military supply chains in the future but like … pretty sure America wants to do that anyway so I don’t know if the government would make decisions based on that.
Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 37 minutes ago
I don’t subscribe to the theories around CIA grand strategy there, the US has many fingers in many pies doesn’talways mean they’repulling the puppet strings.
I’ve learned a bit about that period, and Kerr really seemed to have a boner for using that power and being the big (conservative) dog.
Also i’m not sure its as simple now for the GG to go ahead and do that, i can’t remember the details but i think the GG’s requirements forbuse of that power were significantly tightened in its aftermath.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 9 hours ago
I’ll take the US ire over being a spineless shithole country like we are.
Zagorath@aussie.zone 9 hours ago
Yeah, playing realpolitik is an excuse that can only get you so far. When there’s genocide involved, and various other war crimes involved in executing that genocide (including murdering aid workers and journalists), that excuse goes out the window.