You’re misrepresenting what they actually said.
Comment on Upvotes and downvotes are public information on Lemmy
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 1 day agodude is just bent out of shape because they got called out for disagreeing Russia should go home and leave Ukraine alone.
Perspectivist@feddit.uk 1 day ago
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I mean…I am “they”.
honestly I’m at a loss of even how to respond to your critique. you’re comparing first world problems and the primary request of the Ukrainian government like it’s apples to apples.
I think if either of us is underestimating the complexity of the situation, it’s you.
many of the problems that are plaguing Ukraine right now is Russia. many of the problems plaguing Russia right now is their illegal occupation of Ukraine. the simplest solution right now is for Russia to leave Ukraine. after that, discussions of reciprocity can be held. I use that term loosely here though because Russia is clearly the one at fault and Ukraine has been acting in self-defense, as such Ukraine shouldn’t be required to repay anything to Russia.
also, if you’re coming to Lemmy to have a deep political discussion on the finer points of political discourse (especially on the topic of Russia), you might not be that intelligent. maybe read a book on the subject and find a discussion group at a local library if you want to engage with an intellectual.
remember, these are comments not thesis statements.
Perspectivist@feddit.uk 1 day ago
By “they,” I’m referring to OP, whose comment you misrepresented with “disagreeing Russia should go home and leave Ukraine alone” - which is not what they actually said.
Another good rule of thumb for online discussion came to mind while reading your response: when someone immediately resorts to ad hominem, they almost certainly don’t know what they’re talking about.
npdean@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Thank you for saying it. I thought I was going mad.
npdean@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Ok at the risk of being downvoted to oblivion, why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine?
Mind you, I still think Russia did the wrong thing but there is nuance.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 1 day ago
There is no nuance. Russia amassed an invasion force at the Ukrainian border for a week before entering their sovereign territory.
Russia postured at the border and had been threatening to advance for months before that even.
Russia was supporting Russian separatists and funding domestic terrorists within Ukraine before the invasion.
the only reason why this happened is because the Ukrainian public rebelled against the Russian fed corruption and held an actual legitimate election and removed the installed puppets.
if there is any nuance here, it’s in the multiple ways that Russia had attempted to circumvent the will of the Ukrainian people.
FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 day ago
why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine?
To take it over. You know, like they have done with number of countries number of times before?
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 1 day ago
No, it's on par with telling someone "Well, you shouldn't keep driving drunk then" or "You should 100% stop contacting her and move on if she keeps instantly blocking you on every new platform you try on." Certain actions really are under voluntary control. We're not telling Russia they really need to shape up that GDP if they want the world to take them seriously. We're asking them to stop deciding to kill innocent people. Seems legit. The obstacle is that they really want to, and they're reluctant to stop.
(The analogy is flawed because there's no real equivalency between driving drunk and maybe rolling the dice on killing one family, and yourself, versus doing it to members of a million families. But the simplicity of the solution is the same.)
Perspectivist@feddit.uk 1 day ago
There’s no real cost to stopping drunk driving. Putin, on the other hand, has gone all in on the war in Ukraine. “Just pull your troops from Ukraine” is about as realistic as “just shoot yourself,” because from his perspective, the outcome is basically the same in both scenarios.
Sure, it would be nice if Russia simply left Ukraine, but put yourself in Putin’s position - it’s a complete non-solution. You don’t fold after going all in. It’s an incredibly naive thing to say, and it ignores the reality and complexity of the situation entirely. It’s a thought-terminating cliché - a feel-good slogan people toss around to avoid critical thinking, while fishing for upvotes from like-minded people.
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 4 hours ago
put yourself in Putin’s position - it’s a complete non-solution. You don’t fold after going all in.
That’s literally no one’s problem but Putin’s. He has committed crimes. He should accept the personal reprecussions. You’re basically making the “affluenza” argument for someone who has been committing war crimes and murdering civilians because they dared to want to have a representative government.
FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 day ago
There’s no real cost to stopping drunk driving.
There isn’t one for Russia to go home neither.
put yourself in Putin’s position - it’s a complete non-solution
You are taking a fucking piss.
AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Wow, I’m dumbfounded by this logic.
Let’s say you and I live next door to each other. One day, my family and I break into your house and move in. You tell us to leave, but we punch you in the face. You try fighting back, but we don’t leave, and days and weeks go by. I’ve moved some of my furniture into your house. How would you feel if people started saying that the problem is now too complex. I’ve obviously invested too much in living in your house for me to just pack up and go home. The solution is going to have to be more nuanced than that.
This seems to be the logic you’re defending.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 1 day ago
Sure, it would be nice if Russia simply left Ukraine, but put yourself in Putin’s position - it’s a complete non-solution. You don’t fold after going all in. It’s an incredibly naive thing to say
This is exactly the kind of logic someone would use to justify either of the examples I brought up. Exactly.
The fact that he really doesn't want to stop killing innocent people, and so he would have to pay the "cost" of doing something he doesn't want to do, isn't a justification. I would actually really like for him to be arrested on that ICC warrant and try to explain this exactly logic at the Hague. I think it would be great. I would support him using that defense, I think it would be wonderful to see. People could decide whether to accept the logic, and then whether to hang him or not depending on whether they bought into it as a good reason for continuing to kill innocent people on an industrial scale.
npdean@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Ok I have ro ask, have you studied philosophy or language? Your comments are so well formed with proper terminology.
npdean@lemmy.today 1 day ago
if someone offers a simple solution to a complex problem, they probably don’t know what they’re talking about.
New quote added to my journal
Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Who’s ‘bent out of shape’?
Having to vent his little frustration from NATO fascists losing the war in a totally unrelated discussion about up/downvotes.
Go cry somewhere else.
Or better go volkssturm and go to the Ostfront like your example from the 1940.
You will be dealth with appropriately there.FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 day ago
One comment and five rubles in your pocket, well done Yuri.
Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Another original banger from the nazi.
Yawn.
Go volunteer then to the Ostfront like your WW2 heroes so can you get what you deserve and I don’t have to read your boring drivel.
I’ll piss on your grave laterFelixCress@lemmy.world 1 day ago
That’s rich coming from an actual Putin nazi, Bumhole.
npdean@lemmy.today 1 day ago
I am not bent out of shape. I said what I said and I stand by it. I am surprised about the public nature of my votes.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 1 day ago
I mean it is kind of a dick move to spy on downvotes and then demand that someone respond to you. The dude is wrong as hell, but I do agree with the overall principle that not every vote needs to be subject to someone getting interrogated as to why they voted that way.
Their shock at finding out that it works that way is, of course, why the currently Lemmy UI is badly designed because it creates the illusion for people that their votes are private. They definitely should not do that.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 1 day ago
It’s not something I usually do, but I’m tired of not calling out people on shitty opinions in regards to fascism. especially when it comes to a simple perspective of “this bad thing is bad”.
it’s like someone downvoting because a comment said “fuck cancer”. like…why? my mind can’t even fathom why anyone would dislike that kind of message unless they themselves are cancer or advocate for the advancement of cancer.
typically I don’t give a shit about downvotes, but it just really rubbed me the wrong way.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 1 day ago
Yeah, I get it. You're not wrong.
npdean@lemmy.today 1 day ago
People are free to their opinions. Not everyone will fit into your concept of ethics. If you are calling out someone for their non-conventional opinion, you are against free speech.
Crazyslinkz@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I feel like you misunderstand what free speech is.
Calling someone out for any opinion is part of free speech.
voracitude@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Free speech just means the government isn’t allowed to punish you for only saying things (and even that had a whole constellation of big fuckin asterisks on it). Free speech does not mean freedom from consequences.
AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Nope, that’s not what that means. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences of your speech and it doesn’t mean guaranteed anonymous speech. And as far as the constitution is concerned, the right to freedom of speech only means the government can’t stop you from expressing your opinion.
So you have the right to say what you want without government interference, but other people can tell you that what you said is shitty, your employer can fire you because you opinion isn’t consistent with their values, the forum/venue where you expressed your opinion can ban you, etc.
FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I read the thread and it was definitely worth calling him out this time.
npdean@lemmy.today 1 day ago
Exactly my point. It is a form of witch-hunt. People are too focused on my views on the Russia-Ukraine than the actual topic.