Comment on AI model collapse is not what we paid for

madcat@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

• JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  TBF, SEO and other methodologies that game the rankings muddy the waters and make it harder to get to what you are looking for.

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  • taladar@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    That is not the problem though, Google used to just give you the results containing what you searched for, the problem started when they tried to be “smarter” than that.

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    • Zos_Kia@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      That has never been true for Google. That’s what other search engines did in the late 90s, and Google’s success comes precisely from implementing smart ranking rather than just being a directory.

      They were also early adopters of semantic search using NLP and embeddings, way before LLMs became popular.

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    • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      That’s never really been true. It’s a cat and mouse game.

      If Google actually used its 2015 or 2005 algorithms as written, but on a 2025 index of webpages, that ranking system would be dogshit because the spammers have already figured out how to crowd out the actual quality pages with their own manipulated results.

      Tricking the 2015 engine using 2025 SEO techniques is easy. The problem is that Google hasn’t actually been on the winning side of properly ranking quality for maybe 5-10 years, and quietly outsourced the search ranking systems to the ranking systems of the big user sites: Pinterest, Quora, Stack Overflow, Reddit, even Twitter to some degree. If there’s a responsive result and it ranks highly on those user voted sites, then it’s probably a good result. And they got away with switching to that methodology just long enough for each of those services to drown in their own SEO spam techniques, so that those services are all much worse than they were in 2015. And now indexing search based on those sites is no longer a good search result.

      There’s no turning backwards. We need to adopt new rankings for the new reality, not try to turn back to when we were able to get good results.

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      • taladar@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        I am not talking about SEO and ranking crap. I am talking about the fact that Google e.g. decides that it is smarter than me when I say I want this exact string while searching for an error message and tries to replace all kinds of parts of it. I am talking about Google replacing terms in my search with other terms because it thinks those are more popular even though the term I used was e.g. the name of a software that is deliberately not the common word Google replaced it with. I am talking about Google replacing actual search results with AI summaries.

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  • Squizzy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Look at how they give results for youtube, maybe three relevant and then its back to suggestions.

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    • Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      YT search has always been comically bad if your looking for “long tail results”.

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      • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        It absolutely got worse around 5 or so years ago, literally filled with suggestions instead of the fucking search term.

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  • MaggiWuerze@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Because Google allows them to. They could easily ignore these kind of tricks but choose not to

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