Direct Solar Power: Off-Grid Without Batteries | How we can minimize expensive, ecologically damaging battery storage by changing how we think about energy

Comments

• htrayl@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Meh, this article really only discusses lithium ion and lead acid batteries. It is well known both of these are abysmal for grid storage, and are at best relatively expensive solutions for mobile energy.

  There are already several energy storage solutions that are starting to be installed that aren’t these and that are far more cost effective. Flow batteries are an example. For the same cost as lithium ion we get 3x the energy storage and 3x the lifespan (and are essentially 100% refurbishable) for the same cost. They just come at a price of weight and volume (which isn’t a problem for most grid or residential storage). There are others as well.

  The article does do a good job talking about thermal as a solution, and this is very true. They don’t talk about high temperature thermal energy storage, though that is admittedly more of an industrial use case.

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  • Revan343@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    As a bonus, if you over build the solar anyways, now you have excess power that could go to hydrogen generation

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  • mookulator@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    What about using solar to pump water into a reservoir and then using that to run hydroelectric systems at night? Too inefficient?

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    • tetraodon@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s used, see pumped storage. However, it’s not possible to build it everywhere.

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• huginn@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Culturally this is never gonna happen, obviously.

  Especially since it’s not necessary.

  Energy storage tech is only barely in its infancy since fossil fuel corps have stood on its neck for so long.

  It’s a really weird take to insist that batteries can’t work when we’ve barely even tried. It’s like the 2 year old saying it’s impossible because he’s been trying to stick the star through the circle hole, and that we should just be happy with stars not being in the box.

  Ecologically damaging like lithium is still a case of star in circle hole: we’re only just scratching the surface of grid scale energy storage.

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  • Uranium3006@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I want to see more stuff like grid scale flywheel energy storage. Dead simple tech and if it can live power by even 6 hourait's immediately useful, 24 and that's 90% of that you need

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    • schroedingershat@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It takes a 260kg flywheel with all its mass at the edge spinning at mach 0.5 to store 1kWh.

      If you want simple, build a carnot battery. It’ll be half as efficient, but far more compact and long lasting.

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    • keepthepace@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Many battery tech are dead simple. It is a rolled layer of specific materials at precise thickness but really not rocket science, especially when you are not concerned about per kg efficiency. Flywheels are much more complicated, requiring well maintained mechanics, a motor and a dynamo.

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• ansiz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  At least in the USA the bigger challenge seem to be the energy company’s really fighting back against residential solar. California is facing some serious changes, I don’t think net metering is even an option in just municipal areas even more. I’ve heard around San Francisco they are going to start hitting folks with big grid connection fees every month.

  In my area of North Carolina it’s the same thing, with the power company doing everything it can to make switching to solar less and less worth it. Just the cost of the panels are enough to do that for most people!

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  • schroedingershat@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Net meeting is a gift to the upper middle class and wealthy to stop them nimbying and to develop the industry. If they are complaining about not getting it on new installs, it worked.

    What is needed is to stop forcing them to pay $3 to the utility and a salesman for every $0.8 the actual product costs. End any fee for approval, make the sale, install and resale prices publicly available, and the utility has to pay full retail price for any energy that could have been produced by an installed system awaiting approval.

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• 0x0001@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  This is an interesting article, in places with hydro or wind based electricity I think it’s fine to have the expectation of forever available electricity.

  Even in those cases it does make sense to limit our use of appliances and such to locally produced solar electricity. I wish we had standards for neighborhood solar farms for cases where some houses have minimal sun exposure.

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  • stabby_cicada@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    in places with hydro or wind based electricity I think it’s fine to have the expectation of forever available electricity.

    And what happens when there’s a drought or change in weather patterns?

    I think expecting 24-7 electricity, whether it’s available or not, is part of the issue with modern consumption. We expect electricity on demand, so any energy solution has to have backups and grid connections and batteries and all that expensive ecologically damaging infrastructure the article discusses.

    The point isn’t that some electricity production is reliable 24/7. The point is, if we want an ethos of reduced consumption, we need to give up the idea that we have the right to power on demand 24-7. We adjust our power consumption to nature’s rhythms and circumstances rather than spending billions extra to guarantee we can consume power whenever we want. And that would have a much bigger impact than adjusting our thermostats or wearing sweaters.

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    • 018118055@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      There are many medical applications which need power when the sun doesn’t shine. Likewise there are places where the sun doesn’t shine for months at a time. I don’t think the answer is capitulation. The answer is innovating better storage which addresses the challenges in the article.

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    • p1mrx@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      we need to give up the idea that we have the right to power on demand 24-7

      If that’s the green transition plan, then we will continue burning fossil fuels until everybody dies in the climate wars.

      We need to create electricity abundance, not scarcity, to have any hope of success. Far too many people will only give up their A/C when you pry it from their cold dead hands.

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    • chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m theory, yes. But for every person that believes this, there are 10 more who will not budge. “I need to set my air conditioning to 60 degrees to sleep.”

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