Submitted 2 weeks ago by tfm@europe.pub to fediverse@lemmy.world
https://thelibre.news/why-i-recommend-against-bluesky/
cross-posted from: programming.dev/post/27143191
Why I recommend against Bluesky.
Have you ever heard of the term federation-washing?
It’s just wild to watch Bluesky fans stumble over themselves to say it’s part of a federated future and that it’s decentralized yada yada, when it takes millions of dollars to do with it what takes me $80 for a Raspberry Pi and $15 for a domain name to do with ActivityPub.
Idk why anyone argues it. I’m on it, but only because I want to support Not Twitter®. I’m there to just be user no. 1663987 who doesn’t want to be on Twitter. I post a stupid thought, some sports commentary, and scroll the feed for a minute or two. If it went away tomorrow, I’d have 0 negative effects on my life in even the most miniscule way.
Like…I like it there, and people seem to want an alternative to Twitter pretty bad, but idk if Bluesky is it. But I also don’t are to join Mastodon, as that kinda format isn’t something I care about or take seriously, and I’d rather get information here. If I get a Mastodon account in the future, I’d rather not have it tied directly back to my spite posting account lol
Bluesky is new Twitter today.
There is nothing in its design to prevent it from becoming the X of tomorrow.
If you really don’t care that much just go to Mastodon and leave bluesky as there is a better decentralized place already. If everyone on bluesky went to Mastodon instead the Fediverse would get a lot more attention and get better too.
Specially seeing you in Lemmy, why did you leave reddit then (I’m assuming you did sorry if it’s not the case)? For me was precisely to not give that much power to a single compan6and this applies lots of things not just twitter. Centralizing power is bad and bluesky is exactly that at the end.
I want to support people that really tries to solve this issues and not just people who takes this as an opportunity to be the next Elon Musk, ups I mean twitter.
15€ is enough for three domains!
This is very recent news but there is a group of people on Bluesky that are looking at setting up their own PDS, but it feels clear to me that the system as designed is so heavily biased against third parties doing this. It’s just such a completely different vibe compared to ActivityPub platforms that are built so strongly around the goal of making it easy to do in order to make it more widely distributed.
The problem isn’t the PDS but the Relays. You need terabytes of storage and and some beefy hardware to run one of these. Also there are still quite some parts centralized.
I love how it isn’t a requirement for a DID to be decentralised. did:plc is completely centralised.
I will still support it to get the normies off of twitter.
Still the right thing
Harm reduction is still harm reduction.
Yup. Don’t trust the folks trying to equate bluesky with the fediverse. You can tell by the people who were promoting it that there was something off about it. I suspected honeypot, or maybe just trying to rival Musk to control the conversation.
So it’s not federated properly or something? Is the problem having to abandon ship if everything goes the Twitter route?
What most people in this thread don’t realize is that what you’re seeing right here is the problem with federated services in this day and age.
Federation protocols and systems just are not mature enough to scale.
Yes you will essentially always have to abandon ship anytime any federated service scales up it’s user base. It will always be entirely unaffordable and unobtainable for randoms to host their own servers because the compute storage and networking requirements will far exceed what most can’t afford.
As an aggregate federated services are always more expensive to host then centralized services. And that cost scales less efficiently than centralized services. Meaning that with linear user growth you get exponential cost growth, and the barrier for entry follows.
Which means that all federated services have to have centralization in order to scale. In their current form.
This is a really tough problem to solve and is going to take a lot of time and money to build good solutions for. Time and money that… You guessed it, is largely funded by profits not donations.
And now we have looped back around.
I disagree, this assumes that every node (instance, server, whatever you want to call it) has to be twitter size.
I can self host my own gotosocial instance, follow people I like, and it will give me their posts, and I can interact with them.
In fact, atproto scales even worse horizontally than ActivityPub, it scales quadratically.
That seemed to be what I was understanding about the issue. Does that mean that the technology isn’t there yet, in terms of affordability? If that’s the case it would be longer to fully get something like this as the concept is the opposite of what people with money want
The problem is having to get 300 millions to open another instance feddit.org/post/6795570
huh
huh, is Bridgey Fed not using relays?
As far as I understand do they use Bluesky’s infrastructure.
Its really just another pds.
CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
From the article …
sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Yep.
Its ‘federated’ as long as you ignore a single massive chokepoint controlled by one company that allows them to block/ban/censor users of any part of the system.
So functionally, their ‘federation’ system is actually just a false marketing/propoganda campaign that may also result in crowd sourcing some server costs.
It’s psuedo-federation, along the lines of a psuedo-historian or psuedo-scientist: They pretend to be something they are not, in such a way that makes them seem trustworthy when they are in fact not.
fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 1 week ago
This is why I think ActivityPub needs DIDs for identity management like Bluesky has with AT-Proto, but in a true, user owned way: https://fedid.me
Give AP the benefits of AT, without Bluesky involved.
p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I still don’t understand how the PDS concept matters in an interconnected network of replies. Conversations are threaded, and that “personal data” needs all parties involved in the chain to move to this new thing at the same time. It’s not going to happen.