Comment on Russian missiles strike more than half of Ukraine's regions

• D61@hexbear.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I-am-very-smart: Ukrainian sources “claim” that Russian missiles struck many places in Ukraine. There are no Russian sources regarding this claim. Therefore I conclude that the missile attack didn’t happen.

  also

  I-am-very-smart: Why yes, my brain is completely smooth, very aerodynamic!

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• octopus_ink@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It has no relevance. Russians shot missiles into Ukraine. The facts of the matter are that Russians are the aggressors here, and this is a war entirely of their making. The Ukrainian perspective about the effects of the missile attack on them is what matters to an article about the missile attack on Ukraine.

  Not including the Russian perspective isn’t a lack of bias, it’s omitting things which don’t matter. We already know that Russia invaded Ukraine, and that Russia will rubble-ize it rather than surrender unless they are aggressively beaten back by Ukraine.

  You’ll notice I didn’t complain about the parts where they pick on the language used in the article - because those are valid complaints. Expecting the article to include the Russian perspective about the smoking craters they left all across Ukraine is patently ridiculous.

  Sometimes facts are just facts. Russia is objectively the ones who started the war, they are objectively the aggressors, and they are objectively responsible for all related death and destruction. We don’t need to be sure we include a sentence saying, “And by the way the Russians did this because they would really like to control Ukraine” every time - that’s part of the setting.

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  • Kuori@hexbear.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Russians are the aggressors here, and this is a war entirely of their making

    “history began yesterday” i-love-not-thinking

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    • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      If you’ve got something more than rhetorical snark to tell me why I’m wrong, I’m happy to hear it.

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  • GarbageShoot@hexbear.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Russia is objectively the nation who started the war,

    The war began 8 years before Russia invaded, it’s just that Russia’s invasion is the only thing most countries cared/care about.

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  • MaeBorowski@hexbear.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The facts of the matter are that Russians are the aggressors here

    I’m glad you let us know in your 3rd sentence that you have no idea what a fact even is and that the rest of your gibberish comment can be immediately discarded. What a cringe, foolish thing to say. picard

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    • Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Hexbears and simping for fascist dictatorships.

      Name a more iconic duo

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    • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Hey ad homs are a good go-to when you encounter what you perceive as someone’s ignorance, right? I find it wins hearts and minds without fail. Any time you want to explain to me how they are not the aggressors I’m all ears.

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      • MaeBorowski@hexbear.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Do you know what an ad hominem even is? Apparently not, since nowhere in my comment did I use one. Like there was nothing I said that even came close to an ad hominem but even if there was, this isn’t junior high debate club, nerd.

        As for you wanting me to explain to you the fact that Russia is not the aggressor in this conflict, it’s hard to know where to even start, in part because I don’t know how deep your ignorance of history and geopolitics is or what specific pieces of propaganda you believe, but also because there is a hell of a lot of history and context there to cover when answering such a broad question as “why is Russia not the aggressor?” It’s a huge thing to ask someone, not unlike saying to some stranger on the net “Hey, I believe that aliens actually built the pyramids. No? Well if you want to explain that they didn’t, I’m all ears.” It’s saying “My mind is made up on some bullshit, but you challenged it, so feel free to explain ancient Egyptian history, their socioeconomics, their technological capabilities, and other entire disciplines as the necessary context that together would make it clear that my belief is based in ignorance.” Just like in that scenario, there is quite a lot I could talk about to try to get you to recognize the reality of the situation, even though it’s not my job to educate you. So without going into detail, off the top of my head, here are some of the things I could talk about.

        I could talk about NATO and how even since the fall of the Soviet Union (which was the ostensible reason for the existence of NATO in the first place) it continued to threaten and antagonize Russia, encircling it with military bases and encroaching upon it with missile systems despite Russia’s requests for economic alliances and even to join the bloc, but how the response of NATO was to ramp up using military threats. I could elaborate about how this was to force Russia to bend the knee even more than it already had, the ultimate goal being complete subjugation to western economic interests agsinst the interests or will of the people of Russia. But I don’t expect that would impress most western liberals who already have their mind made up that Russia is, was, and always will be made up of bad guys, so instead I could talk about the openly US-backed coup in Ukraine that removed the democratically elected party from power and replaced it with literal neo-nazi fascists specifically for the reason that those nazis were anti-Russia. I could talk about how that fascist regime is who is in power now (as they were when Russia entered the conflict) and how they banned all opposition parties, making any that are even remotely pro-Russia illegal and also indefinitely suspended elections. I could talk about how even before the coup, for years NATO had been arming and training neo-nazi terrorist militias as proxy fighting forces (a very common tactic btw) in Ukraine for the purpose of provoking a military conflict with Russia. I could talk about how that fascist regime immediately started an ethnic cleansing campaign in eastern Ukraine of the Russian-speaking populace there. I could talk about how this was escalated into civil war long before February of 2022 and how those regions attempted to become breakaway republics, with Ukraine (rather, the fascist regime ruling Ukraine, but who we all mean now when we talk of “Ukraine” as a political entity) continuously shelling these regions and murdering the civilians that lived there. I could talk about how Russia repeatedly tried to get all this to stop through diplomatic means, including the signing of famous agreements - agreements that not only Ukraine and their NATO backers ended up completely ignoring, but that even western leaders openly admitted they had no intent of honoring and were only made so that they could delay Russia from taking any action to stop the ethnic cleansing, allowing the fascists more time to militarize and slaughter Russian-speakers unopposed. I could talk about how Russia was finally forced to intervene in an ongoing civil war, but how all the dumbass western libs call this an “unprovoked invasion” and instead of seeing the complex economic and political history, let alone the fact that the US had been trying to force something like this to happen, like to pretend it was some ravanchist scheme of that dastardly Putin. And there’s still a ton that that I forgot to mention even as a topic I could talk about. But an actual understanding of these things should make it clear to anyone who is both honest and paying attention that Russia is indeed not the aggressor.

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