Comment on Toyota builds experimental hydrogen-powered pizza oven and grill.

JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• grue@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The best way to store and transport hydrogen is to combine it with carbon so that it becomes a convenient liquid fuel. As a bonus, then you don’t even need fuel cells to make electricity from it, but can instead simply burn it in something called an “in internal combustion engine”

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  • mholiv@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This is just synthetic fossil fuel with extra steps. Lol.

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    • grue@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Exactly.

      Hydrogen is mostly a greenwashing scam; it isn’t any better than what we already have.

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  • MonkderDritte@feddit.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Nah, combustion engine is just one step up from the steam engine, such a wasteful technology, should long be in a museum.

    First thing i think about in using a hydrogen-carbon fuel, is fuel cell to create electricity.

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    • superminerJG@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      we do call them fuel cells

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• Kecessa@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Tons of experts believe the only way hydrogen based transportation makes sense is by using it to fuel heavy transport right at the source instead of trying to transport it via pipeline.

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yup. Produce it with wind or solar at the warehouse, then load it onto trucks or forklifts or whatever. It’s a nice little closed ecosystem.

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• CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  As Toyota has demonstrated (and speaking from my own experience), it’s not that tricky. As for cooking with the stuff, sometimes you just need portability and/or a flame. Electric is a poor choice in those cases.

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  • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Portability is hard for hydrogen since you hadn’t liquify it without huge pressures and cryogenic temps, so you need big tanks. But cooking stoves does seem like a pretty good use case.

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    • themurphy@lemmy.ml ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I think the experts who believes in this technology know a bit more than you and me who only read a few wiki pages.

      If money is going into this, they also have a believable plan. But big oil certainly want you to think otherwise.

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      • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Huh? It’s big oil and the like who are pushing hydrogen over electricity.

        And the problem with hydrogen is largely to do with the laws of physics, so it’s unlikely to change soon.

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      • wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        That’s an appeal to authority fallacy if I’ve ever seen one.

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    • CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Compress it to 10,000psi and it gets portable enough.

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      • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        As I said, huge pressures. You’ll need super heavy or super exotic tanks.

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  • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Just need to waste a ton of energy extracting it then liquifying it then hoping that transport doesn’t face any issues (and I mean, considering our track record with petrol which doesn’t corrode everything it touches I sure as hell wouldn’t worry about it) and then fill up your personal car that could have simply been powered by electricity from the beginning…

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    • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Wait wait wait, you’re telling me that taking electricity, sending it along wires, generating hydrogen with it via hydrolysis, packaging it, compressing it to an extreme degree, physically transporting it, putting it in pumps, pumping it into your car, then doing reverse hydrolysis to charge a battery that then powers an electric motor…

      Is less efficient than sending electricity along some wires to your car, charging its battery, to drive an electric motor?

      I’m shocked!

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• jabjoe@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Electric is far more efficient too, thus cheaper. Electricity you can transit over distance over wire and generate however you like. We’ve done it a long time, far and wide.

  Turning electricity into hydrogen, distributing it, and then turning it back into electricity to move a vehicle, is so wasteful/expensive.

  Just use a big battery.

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  • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    For some applications like spacecraft where weight is critical, it does make sense to use hydrogen fuel cells as a battery. But usually it doesn’t make sense.

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    • jabjoe@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Certainly not the way we lunch right now. The energy used, that focused, in that short a time, is insane.

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