Comment on Poor Sega just didn't get the timing right.

Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  This. Management screwed up multiple times and doomed Sega to be . . . well, whatever it is they are now.

  Bad Management (or “good management” if one finanically benefitted from this decision).

  source
• Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s not that they had no confidence. It’s that they took Nintendos approach on hardware. Sell low at a loss, and make the money on software.

  Problem is, you could pirate every single game on dreamcast. Just get a legit copy of the game (renting, buying and returning, borrow from a friend), and have a CD burner.

  Then you could make a 1:1 copy of the game in roughly an hour. As the year 2000 went on, websites even made it easier by posting the game files for download. If you didn’t have broadband (many didn’t at the time. Most had 56k), you could go to your local library and carry a USB stick.

  So every console sold cost them money. And the software was performing abysmally. Plus, PS2 was right around the corner. XBox was an unknown, and Gamecube was assumed to do better than it did.

  From a console war perspective, the year 2001 may have been the most competitive year EVER for video games.

  source

  • Redkey@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Problem is, you could pirate every single game on dreamcast. Just get a legit copy of the game (renting, buying and returning, borrow from a friend), and have a CD burner.

    Then you could make a 1:1 copy of the game in roughly an hour.

    You make it sound trivial. While Sega left a security hole open for games to be loaded from a regular CD, the official games were released on GD-ROMs, a dual-layer CD with a 1.2 GB capacity.

    So first off, you couldn’t read them completely in a regular CD-ROM or even DVD-ROM drive. (I’m not counting the “swap” method because it’s failure-prone and involves partially dismantling the drive and fiddling with it during operation.) You had to connect your console to a computer and use some custom software to read the GD-ROM on the console, and send the data over.

    Once you had the data, you then had the problem of trying to fit a potentially 1.2 GB GD-ROM image onto a regular CD-ROM. A handful of games were actually small enough to fit already, and 80-minute and 99-minute CD-Rs would work in the DC and could store larger games. But for many games, crackers had to modify the game files to make them fit.

    Often they would just strip all the music first, because that was an easy way to save a decent amount of space. Then if that wasn’t enough, they would start stripping video files, and/or re-encoding audio and textures at lower fidelity.

    Burning a CD-R from a downloaded file was easy, but ripping the original discs and converting them to a burnable image generally was not.

    source
  • booly@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    you could go to your local library and carry a USB stick.

    I don’t remember it this way. Nothing else came close to the portable storage capacity of CD (and thus CD-R and CD-RW). The iomega zip drive was still a popular medium, allowing rewritable 100mb or 250mb cartridge. That was the preferred way to get big files to and from a computer lab when I was an engineering student in 2000.

    USB flash drives had just been released in 2000, and their capacity was measured in like 8/16/32mb, nowhere near enough to meaningfully move CD images.

    Then again, as a college student with on-campus broadband on the completely unregulated internet (back when HTTP and the WWW weren’t necessarily considered the most important protocols on the internet), it was all about shared FTP logins PMed over IRC to download illegal shit. The good stuff never touched an actual website.

    source

    • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I remember similarly. I was going to say that thumb drives weren’t even invented until 2005-2006, but I looked it up and they were invented in 1999. I guess I forgot that those tiny ones even existed since I was doing all my external storage on DVD-R or CD-RW.

      source

      • BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I still have the lanyard to my 128 MB PNY Attaché.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
  • frezik@midwest.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’m not sure where you’re getting that Nintendo sells at a loss. They don’t have amazing margins on hardware, but they don’t like selling at a loss. IIRC, commodity prices and a price drop meant the GameCube was briefly sold at a loss, but it wasn’t long, and it wasn’t by much.

    Whatever else you can say about Nintendo, they are really good at managing manufacturing costs.

    source
  • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Why did the playstation not have the same piracy problem?

    source

    • frezik@midwest.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      There’s a little wiggle track burned into PSX discs that’s impossible to duplicate with burners, and it won’t boot up unless it sees that. There’s workarounds that eventually came out, but console copy protection doesn’t have to last forever. It only has to last most of its primary life until the next gen comes out, and PSX managed that.

      source

      • themeatbridge@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Everyone knew a shady guy who promised to mod your PlayStation to play burned games, but few wanted to risk turning their console into a brick.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
    • Redkey@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They did, but apparently everyone has forgotten how prevalent swap discs and modchips were.

      source

      • booly@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        They did, eventually. The first PlayStation was relatively easy to pirate for (with a mod chip), but it took a while for that stuff to become available. Someone had to go and manufacture the chips, or reverse engineer the check.

        By the time that scene matured, Sega released the Dreamcast right into a more sophisticated piracy scene that could apply lessons learned to the Dreamcast right away.

        On paper, Sega had more sophisticated copy protection than the first PlayStation did. But it also released 4 years later.

        source
  • Venator@lemmy.nz ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Was probably more likely just that they couldn’t afford the initial loss anymore because the lenders or shareholders got scared of the PS2 and xbox when they were announced.

    source
• Redkey@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Unfortunately I think that Sega themselves weren’t the only group lacking confidence in the Dreamcast. In fact, I feel like they put up a valiant fight, with marketing and first-party titles.

  Critics and consumers all had an extremely “wait and see” attitude that I think took the theoretical advantage of the incredibly early launch and turned it into a huge liability. People didn’t want to commit to buying their next console without seeing what the other offers were going to be. So Sega had to work hard for about two years to keep the real and actually available Dreamcast positioned high in the market while their competitors had the luxury of showing jaw-dropping demos of “potential” hardware (i.e. “Here is some video produced on $50,000 graphics workstation hardware that is made by the same company that’s currently in talks to produce our GPU.”)

  Third-party publishers also didn’t want to put any serious budget toward producing games for the Dreamcast, because they didn’t want to gamble real money on the install base increasing. This resulted in several low-effort PS1 ports that made very little use of the Dreamcast hardware, which in turn lowered consumer opinion of the console. When some of these games were later ported to PS2 as “upgraded” or “enhanced” versions, that only further entrenched the poor image of the Dreamcast.

  I have owned all four major consoles of that generation since they were still having new games published for them. And if I had to choose only one console to keep from that group, it’d be the PlayStation 2, because of the game library. It’s huge and varied. I have literally hundreds of games for it, while I only have a few dozen games for the others. But looking at the average quality of the graphics and sound in the games for those systems, I’d also rank the PS2 in last place, even behind the DC.

  Sony was a massive juggernaut in the console gaming market at the time. The PlayStation 1 had taken the worldwide market by storm, and become the defacto standard console. It’s easy to forget that the console launches for this generation were unusually spaced out over a four year period, and Sony was the company best positioned to turn that to their favour. People weren’t going to buy a DC without seeing the PS2, but once they did, many were happy to buy a PS2 without waiting for Nintendo or Microsoft to release their consoles. The added ability to play DVDs at exactly the time when that market was hitting its stride (and more affordably than many dedicated DVD players) absolutely boosted their sales in a big way. Nintendo’s GameCube didn’t do that, and by the time the original X-Box came to market, it wasn’t nearly as much of a consideration.

  source