Wouldn’t then in the second panel still not be equal assistance?
Comment on The difference between equality, justice and equity.
VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 10 months agoNo. The system leaning in favor of one group is very much a type of assistance.
toastus@feddit.de 10 months ago
VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 10 months ago
No. “Except for the basics of the system itself” is implied.
toastus@feddit.de 10 months ago
I really don’t mean to be contrarian but I simply don’t understand how a leaning tree can be assistance in panel 1 but not in panel 2.
DessertStorms@kbin.social 10 months ago
It is assistance in both, but the point is that "equal" assistance in an unequal world (the tree still leaning one way) doesn't actually provide justice, since those the tree is leaning towards still benefit more.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
The leaning tree represents things that are unintentional, the tree just grew like that, it wasn’t on purpose.
The second panel represents intentional assistance, it was given to them on purpose.
VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 10 months ago
I really don’t mean to be a contrarian
I’m not sure I believe that, but I’m gonna continue to give you the benefit of doubt for a bit more.
The assistance being alluded to is assistance on top of the system to correct the negative effects of the system.
The vast majority of the reasons any group of people is marginalised at all are systemic and stem from powerful people in the past (and, to a much lesser but still abhorrent degree, the present) writing the rules to give themselves and other people like them advantageous conditions compared to others.
SaakoPaahtaa@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The kid can literally walk 3 meters to the other side doe
VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 10 months ago
Do you know what an analogy is?
SaakoPaahtaa@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Yes and I can even see if theyre any good or not. This one is pretty weak analogy since the kid can walk to the other side. Its not the trees fault its a bit askew
VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 10 months ago
As I explained in another reply, the illustration could have added fences and other barriers, but that would have sacrificed clarity for a degree of accuracy only necessary for pedants like yourself.
And yes, it ABSOLUTELY is the fault of the system and those in charge of shaping it if it’s crooked and nothing is done to straighten it out or at the very least compensate for the disparity.
I’m not sure if you’re being disingenuous or just genuinely obtuse, but I’m leaning more and more towards believing the former.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
It represents unintentional assistance though, not a bias that exists on purpose. Ex: old building entrance is higher than sidewalk, there’s stairs to go up, it wasn’t the intention to cut access to the disabled, it’s a consequence of the default choice.
VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 10 months ago
Some of it IS intentional, though, or (as in your own example) lack of intentionality from another time with a lot less attention being paid to equal access for people outside of the “standard human” powerful people had in mind when building structures both physical and societal.
There being a default at all is a form of discrimination and harm against the people that it disadvantages, whether or not it’s intentional.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
The inequality wasn’t intentional, people didn’t put stairs so disabled wouldn’t have access, they put stairs because that’s what you do when you want people to go up and it had that unintended effect.
The tree didn’t grow leaning on one side so the kid on the wrong side wouldn’t get apples, it grew like that because nature made it.
Giving them ladders was intentional, building a ramp too narrow for wheelchairs that’s intentional…
uniqueid198x@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
Even if the inequality is completely accidental, shouldn’t we do something about it? Like, we don’t have to make everyone millionares, but if the system accidently makes some people suffer, shouldn’t we try to change that?
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Never said nothing should be done about it, just pointing out that there’s in fact a difference between panel 1 and panel 2 contrary to what people are arguing.