Oppressed groups have an internationally recognized right to resist.
Comment on May 13, 1985
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months agoI see a cult with a fortified compound and armed soldiers, with multiple missed paroles and a history of armed violence going back over a decade. If they’re not terrorist then what the fuck are they?
They are also victims, none of the things that occurred on May 13th should have ever happened with competent and respectful leadership and negotiation perhaps by the FBI or actual service members, but being a victim doesn’t erase every stupid indecent thing have ever done.
TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 6 months ago
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months ago
This was 1985. If they were discriminated against then they could have settled it in the courts, not by forming a cult and fortifying a compound.
orrk@lemmy.world 6 months ago
both of those actions are not illegal
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months ago
Neither was my suggestion.
SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 6 months ago
I see a cult with a fortified compound and armed soldiers, with multiple missed paroles and a history of armed violence going back over a decade. If they’re not terrorist then what the fuck are they?
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months ago
Thank goodness it wasn’t the same scale as that event, but at least the FBI attempted to negotiate and staved off a full offensive until 51 days had passed. If the Philadelphia police had shown that kind of respect and restraint then things might have ended a lot differently for the MOVE members.
SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 6 months ago
And yet the Waco siege is still a rallying cry for anti-government groups accusing the FBI and DEA of unjust, violent overreaction, while the MOVE bombing is not. Huh, I wonder what the difference is? /s
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months ago
Could unironically be the difference in body count.
Nevoic@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Terrorist is just a loaded word. Like Hamas is a “terrorist organization” but the state of Israel isn’t.
Terrorism often boils down to “enacting violence against systems of oppression”. Is the IDF a terrorist organization? What about the DoD? These organizations use violence to perpetuate existing systems of oppression, causing vastly more harm than any domestic “terrorist” organization ever will.
While these 11 people were being killed by the state for being “terrorists”, the CIA was backing fascists (contras) to overthrow democratically elected socialists in Nicaragua. Is the CIA a terrorist organization?
Madison420@lemmy.world 6 months ago
No man they literally threatened to bomb other countries for shit happening in the us, that’s everyone’s definition of terrorism.
Nevoic@lemm.ee 6 months ago
This misses the point. If we’re being technical, Hamas is obviously a terrorist organization. Trying to convince me that they are isn’t going to change my position, because I already believe that.
It’s just that in-so-far as Hamas/MOVE etc. are terrorist organizations, the CIA/IDF are far larger ones. They inflict terror and use violence for political gain, the only difference is they’re the ones in power so they decide who is a terrorist.
That’s the problem with the word. The IDF and Hamas are both violent terror groups that shouldn’t exist, but Hamas only exists as a result of the IDF’s genocidal campaign, and yet we only call Hamas a terror group. It’s deeply problematic.
Madison420@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Correct.
orrk@lemmy.world 6 months ago
no, the CIA and IDF are “freedom fighters”
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months ago
That’s whataboutism, multiple wrongs don’t make a right and none of MOVE’s actions are forgiven by this argument.
Nevoic@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Calling this whataboutism is like responding to the claim “people have a biological urge to reproduce” as a naturalistic fallacy.
You’re using the word in sorta the right ballpark (I did make a comparison, e.g a “what about”), however not every time someone says “what about X” are they committing a fallacy.
My entire point was how terrorist is a loaded word, that we only use it to describe one side (the side not in power), even though the technical definition obviously fits organizations in power.
There were native american terror groups, yet the U.S government that literally genocided millions of native Americans isn’t a terror organization, despite their use of terror and violence to achieve political goals. It’s a word with clear problematic etymology.
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months ago
The CIA supporting Fascism in South America has fuck all to do with a confrontation between militarized police and a cult on May 13th 1985 in Philadelphia. If you think that’s not whataboutism then you’re dumb as a sack of bricks.