Youve got all the control. Without you theyre not emitting anything
Comment on fossil fuels
match@pawb.social 4 weeks agoexcept that consumers do not have meaningful control over the companies and the corporate leaders do
blazera@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Signtist@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
No, I don’t, “the population” does. I have control over myself, 1 teeny tiny sliver of the group that is “the population.” If there’s one thing “the population” is known to put the effort into doing, it’s twiddling their thumbs. It’s nothing more than a huge writhing mass of opinions. To expect it to coordinate effectively enough to make change happen is just as ridiculous as to expect all the molecules in a glass of water to suddenly converge on one side. “The population” doesn’t make change, it buffers against it.
“Oh, all we have to do is get 8 billion people of different backgrounds, opinions, socioeconomic standards, and every other metric to agree on something. Surely that’s a feasible task!”
blazera@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
that’s how society works man, we agree to do things a certain way. Lead used to be a really popular component in a lot of consumer products that ended up with a lot of awful health effects. And basically, science let people know it’s bad and should be avoided, and society changed to fix it.
Signtist@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
We got rid of lead products because governments put out new regulations that prevented companies from making products with lead, not because the population collectively decided not to buy products with lead in them. If companies had been allowed to continue making lead products, they’d have done so, and people would have continued buying them despite the science pointing to them being bad for you.
Companies will do whatever is profitable unless prevented from doing so by regulations, and people will buy what companies sell because most people don’t know, and don’t have the time to figure out what products they buy are harmful to themselves and others. Even when they do, they often don’t have the wealth to make a change to buying safer, more expensive products.
“How society works” is that people have to buy products to survive, and often have little choice among what products they can afford. If we want companies to start lowering their emissions, we need to force them to do so with regulations, just like we had to do with lead.
match@pawb.social 4 weeks ago
I do not have the control because I have limited means and if they do not offer an ecological option within those means then I have to choose from non-ecological options within those means
bleistift2@feddit.de 4 weeks ago
You have control over whether you eat pork or tofu, don’t you? You have control over whether you buy a new iPhone or a used FairPhone, don’t you? You have control over whether you plan a trip via airplane or via train, don’t you?
NotBillMurray@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Shifting the blame to the individual plays precisely into the hands of massive corporations. People buy what is available and cheapest, and without government intervention that’s going to be plastic packaging wrapped in more plastic.
bleistift2@feddit.de 4 weeks ago
Why not both? Companies that peel bananas and wrap them in plastic for sale are garbage companies. And people who buy them are garbare people.
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 weeks ago
Environmentalists remember that disabled people exist challenge: impossible.
something_random_tho@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Yes, and I deliberately make choices to reduce my footprint. But it’s not enough, people are naturally greedy and think only as far as next quarter’s earnings, hence the need for regulation to account for long-term costs to the world.
pennomi@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Well, in the US trains probably aren’t an option. But you’re exactly right. The reason corporations pollute is because we buy their stuff.
Num10ck@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
corporation pollute because the governments let them, and its cheapest. governments let then because they are corrupted by the corporations.
if/when executives can get the death penalty for crimes against earth, they will still find a way to supply stuff to market.
pennomi@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
For sure, they optimize for profits, and that means being irresponsible with the world.
Let’s take meat for example. It’s not like a ranch is going to raise and slaughter millions of cattle just for the lulz. If nobody is buying it, there’s no economic incentive and the problem goes away.
Consumers are unwilling to change to more expensive, ethical products. It follows that corporations are unwilling to produce them. Until something like lab meat becomes cheaper and easier than natural meat, this will persist. This could be done through taxes on natural meat, (maybe a methane emissions tax).
But consumers hold all the power here. They could simply switch to eating less meat and the producers would automatically correct themselves. You just can’t convince people to do it.
AlternatePersonMan@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
The argument is that corporations do what they want, often not because we want to buy their stuff, but because:
Here’s some examples:
Yes, you could choose to live off of the grid and walk everywhere and grow your own crops, but that’s hardly a choice. And it doesn’t have to be that way. Shitty people at the top of these companies make ungodly money by screwing everyone else over anyway they can, regardless of the cost to humanity. That is the point.
match@pawb.social 4 weeks ago
a train ticket cross country costs thousands of dollars more than an equivalent class of airplane tickets so no, no I do not have that control
bleistift2@feddit.de 4 weeks ago
NY–LA via Amtrak: $291. Greyhound, a bus company: $139
match@pawb.social 4 weeks ago
Can you acknowledgedyou’ve moved the goalposts from train to bus?
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 weeks ago
The $300 ticket is for a coach seat for a trip that takes 70-90 hours one way. Hope you don’t like laying down to sleep or showering!
I can only assume you’ve never taken Greyhound if you’re suggesting it for a cross country trip. In addition to having the same problems as trains but worse (try spending 12 hours in a bus stop halfway through your trip because of overbooking!), if you do want to take Greyhound then be sure to sleep on top of anything on your person that you don’t want stolen. Once I had shit stolen from me before I even made it onto the bus!