I hear ya man. It really gets my goat when people say Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea isn’t a Democratic Republic. Like, it’s right there in the name.
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Buffalox@lemmy.world 8 months agoThat’s kind of the no true Christian argument. China is Communist in some ways, like it has a “Communist” party that knows best what’s good for the people. Clearly according to communist doctrine.
SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Buffalox@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Strawman argument, that clearly shows you don’t get the no true Christian fallacy.
SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Not at all. My statement simply pointed out a common mistake many people make when misusing the “No True Scotsman” or “appeal to purity” fallacy, as you did. This fallacy occurs when there is no clear, objective definition available, or when someone dismisses a valid counterexample.
That’s why, since you have a clear definition in mind of what a Democratic Republic is, you immediately recognized the misuse of the term in North Korea’s case, and thus wouldn’t argue that stating it isn’t truly a Democratic Republic constitutes a “No True Scotsman” fallacy. The same reasoning applies to China and Communism.
Communism is a political, social, and economic ideology advocating for the replacement of private ownership and profit-based economies with a classless system of communal ownership. However, China has actively promoted private entrepreneurship and foreign investment, fostering the growth of a private sector. Therefore, China cannot be considered Communist.
The definition of Communism can be tested and evaluated. China’s policies diverge from this definable concept, thus it doesn’t fall under the “No True Scotsman” fallacy.
Buffalox@lemmy.world 8 months ago
As I mentioned earlier, you don’t understand the no true Christian fallacy. I did not use no true Scotsman, I used no true Christian. There is no true Christian because it’s IMPOSSIBLE, it has nothing to do with the no true Scotsman fallacy.
Christians recognize that other Christians are not true Christians, but believe themselves to be, but they are not because it’s impossible.
In the same way there are no true communist countries because it’s impossible. But they are communist in being authoritarian and CLAIM to be communist, and claim to have roots in Marxism.
To what degree they actually have is irrelevant, because all attempts at communism have resulted in oppression of the people and civil rights like freedom of speech. And this is no different in China than all other Communist countries, so as I see it, China is as communist as any other so called Communist country.
Just like a Christian who believes in trinity is as Christian as one who doesn’t.
bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
This reminds me of a famous quote from Karl Marx:
“If you call yourself a communist, you must be a communist”
Buffalox@lemmy.world 8 months ago
In a way yes. Except other communists will always complain that any attempt of implementing communism isn’t true communism.
But people who favor democracy, have less trouble identifying that communism doesn’t really work, and accept it as communism despite the failures of actually living up to the ideals.
bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
I think your problem is assuming that just because a revolution is led by a person who purports to be communist, therefore the new regime established by that person must also be communist, even after almost a hundred years of political evolution. Just because they put “The People’s X” on everything doesn’t mean that any of it is actually operating in a way which upholds any of the ideals of communism as described by Marx.
China is an authoritarian capitalist oligarchy. There’s some state intervention for welfare, but honestly not that much more than a country like the US (eg. both have for-profit healthcare, both have a pretty jingoist/exploitative attitude toward other countries, both have a prison-industrial complex, both have rampant wealth inequality).