That’s kind of the no true Christian argument. China is Communist in some ways, like it has a “Communist” party that knows best what’s good for the people. Clearly according to communist doctrine.
In a way yes. Except other communists will always complain that any attempt of implementing communism isn’t true communism.
But people who favor democracy, have less trouble identifying that communism doesn’t really work, and accept it as communism despite the failures of actually living up to the ideals.
I think your problem is assuming that just because a revolution is led by a person who purports to be communist, therefore the new regime established by that person must also be communist, even after almost a hundred years of political evolution. Just because they put “The People’s X” on everything doesn’t mean that any of it is actually operating in a way which upholds any of the ideals of communism as described by Marx.
China is an authoritarian capitalist oligarchy. There’s some state intervention for welfare, but honestly not that much more than a country like the US (eg. both have for-profit healthcare, both have a pretty jingoist/exploitative attitude toward other countries, both have a prison-industrial complex, both have rampant wealth inequality).
I hear ya man. It really gets my goat when people say Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea isn’t a Democratic Republic. Like, it’s right there in the name.
Not at all. My statement simply pointed out a common mistake many people make when misusing the “No True Scotsman” or “appeal to purity” fallacy, as you did. This fallacy occurs when there is no clear, objective definition available, or when someone dismisses a valid counterexample.
That’s why, since you have a clear definition in mind of what a Democratic Republic is, you immediately recognized the misuse of the term in North Korea’s case, and thus wouldn’t argue that stating it isn’t truly a Democratic Republic constitutes a “No True Scotsman” fallacy. The same reasoning applies to China and Communism.
Communism is a political, social, and economic ideology advocating for the replacement of private ownership and profit-based economies with a classless system of communal ownership. However, China has actively promoted private entrepreneurship and foreign investment, fostering the growth of a private sector. Therefore, China cannot be considered Communist.
The definition of Communism can be tested and evaluated. China’s policies diverge from this definable concept, thus it doesn’t fall under the “No True Scotsman” fallacy.
Buffalox@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That’s kind of the no true Christian argument. China is Communist in some ways, like it has a “Communist” party that knows best what’s good for the people. Clearly according to communist doctrine.
bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
This reminds me of a famous quote from Karl Marx:
“If you call yourself a communist, you must be a communist”
Buffalox@lemmy.world 8 months ago
In a way yes. Except other communists will always complain that any attempt of implementing communism isn’t true communism.
But people who favor democracy, have less trouble identifying that communism doesn’t really work, and accept it as communism despite the failures of actually living up to the ideals.
bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
I think your problem is assuming that just because a revolution is led by a person who purports to be communist, therefore the new regime established by that person must also be communist, even after almost a hundred years of political evolution. Just because they put “The People’s X” on everything doesn’t mean that any of it is actually operating in a way which upholds any of the ideals of communism as described by Marx.
China is an authoritarian capitalist oligarchy. There’s some state intervention for welfare, but honestly not that much more than a country like the US (eg. both have for-profit healthcare, both have a pretty jingoist/exploitative attitude toward other countries, both have a prison-industrial complex, both have rampant wealth inequality).
SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I hear ya man. It really gets my goat when people say Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea isn’t a Democratic Republic. Like, it’s right there in the name.
Buffalox@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Strawman argument, that clearly shows you don’t get the no true Christian fallacy.
SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Not at all. My statement simply pointed out a common mistake many people make when misusing the “No True Scotsman” or “appeal to purity” fallacy, as you did. This fallacy occurs when there is no clear, objective definition available, or when someone dismisses a valid counterexample.
That’s why, since you have a clear definition in mind of what a Democratic Republic is, you immediately recognized the misuse of the term in North Korea’s case, and thus wouldn’t argue that stating it isn’t truly a Democratic Republic constitutes a “No True Scotsman” fallacy. The same reasoning applies to China and Communism.
Communism is a political, social, and economic ideology advocating for the replacement of private ownership and profit-based economies with a classless system of communal ownership. However, China has actively promoted private entrepreneurship and foreign investment, fostering the growth of a private sector. Therefore, China cannot be considered Communist.
The definition of Communism can be tested and evaluated. China’s policies diverge from this definable concept, thus it doesn’t fall under the “No True Scotsman” fallacy.