Comment on Imagine everything humans could accomplish if we were not a commerce based civilization.

ramble81@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The problem with that and most other proposals for whatever other moneyless utopian society is that they all implicitly require some manner of all-powerful central authority to ensure that the rewards get distributed, the labor gets allocated, and the rules stay followed.

  And we already know how well that’s going to turn out.

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  • Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It also leaves the disabled, elderly, or otherwise unable to contribute in the cold.

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  • Deceptichum@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    That's odd, me and my housemates can distribute our housekeeping jobs amongst ourselves without having someone come along and tell us what to do.

    Yet when it comes to the country I live in, this is suddenly unimaginable because who would want to live somewhere functional of their own volition.

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    • Kaboom@reddthat.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It works for 4 people. It does not work for 4 million.

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      • Deceptichum@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        You've tried?

        There's this thing called democracy, where people can come together as a community to discuss issues and work out solutions - such as allocating word loads as need be. That's the same underlying principle my house uses, communication not authority.

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  • DessertStorms@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    he problem with that and most other proposals for whatever other moneyless utopian society is that they all implicitly require some manner of all-powerful central authority to ensure that the rewards get distributed, the labor gets allocated, and the rules stay followed.

    that really isn't the case..
    Communism by definition is not only moneyless but also stateless and classless (if there is an "all powerful" anything - it isn't communism).
    anarchism by definition abolishes all hierarchy, so again, no one person or even group gets to a point of having any significant power over anyone else.

    In both cases (which are the two most notable far left ideologies I would say, along with socialism which is inherent to both) not having an all powerful central authority is literally the point.

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    • dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Attempting to have no authority may be the “point,” but here in reality that doesn’t actually work as long as humans remain what they are. It can only function so long as everyone involved cooperates to the very letter of the classless-moneyless-stateless social agreement and there is no outside disruption from anywhere else that doesn’t subscribe to the ideal. The moment someone figures out they can cheat to get more than others, it falls apart.

      And what they want more of does not necessarily have to be money. It could be land, or crops, or coconuts, or a bigger hut, or more sexual partners, or shinier rocks, or internet post likes, or more prestige, or whatever.

      One of two things then happen: They succeed, and become the authority. Or an authority has to be formed by some type of agreement by everyone else to stop them. This also inevitably begets violence.

      You can try as hard as you like to evade this, but unless you lobotomize literally everyone or have magic mind control powers or something (which would require you to be… the authority) it is guaranteed that you will fail. Maybe not immediately, but the larger in scale your little social experiment gets the sooner it will happen. You can get 5 or 10 or maybe even 100 people to perfectly agree with each other and play along. If you’re lucky, you might even make it last for more than one generation. Don’t even try to argue that you could do it with a million people. Or ten million. Or 332 million (the population of the United States). Ceaseless cooperation in numbers beyond those of our immediate tribe- or family-sphere is not a trait that is found in humans.

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      • Cryophilia@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Listen. I’m far from the worst human out there. But if I was introduced to a fair, classless, equal society, I would become their dictator faster than you can say “utopia”. No force to stop me, no one allowed to stop me, I’d be like smallpox to the Indians.

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      • DessertStorms@kbin.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        but here in reality that doesn’t actually work as long as humans remain what they are

        "reality" is what capitalism has indoctrinated you to think it is, not acctual reality, which is that humans are hardwired to cooperate

        and there is no outside disruption from anywhere else that doesn’t subscribe to the ideal

        so you acknowledge that attempts at communism couldn't have succeeded because capitalism wouldn't allow it.

        https://medium.com/international-workers-press/misconceptions-about-communism-2e366f1ef51f

        You can try as hard as you like to evade actual reality, and the fact that capitalism is literally destroying humanity and the planet, or you can keep licking its boot because you're too scared or even unable to think outside of the box it created for you, but non of that will make you right, only wilfully ignorant and resistant to change.. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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  • SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    And yet here you are, in the fediverse.

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• OceanSoap@lemmy.ml ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Kinda like how when we contribute our time to our jobs, we’re rewarded with… money?

  Lol

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