Comment on 40% of US electricity is now emissions-free

Rapidcreek@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

• NaibofTabr@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  In case you’re ever wondering, this is an example of your tax dollars at work. Thirty years ago solar and wind generation had to be heavily subsidized with government grants to make them viable in the energy market. Now the technology of both has advanced to the point that it’s undercutting all of the other forms of electricity generation, without subsidization.

  Government subsidies work. They’re effective for getting new technologies off the ground.

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  • Pretzilla@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Good thing we still subsidize petroleum

    Good for the oil companies and legislators they own, anyway

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    • nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Don’t forget the retirees, that rely on the stock prices dividend payouts in their 401ks that are the only alternative after states and corps plundered all the pension systems to buy those politicians.

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  • paraphrand@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    They are great. As long as they don’t end up like corn.

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    • Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Or oil and coal, propping up bad energy sources while the clean ones have to often fend for themselves and compete against the subsidies.

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      • F_Haxhausen@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Or oil and corn and meat and dairy.

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      • DanglingFury@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        They do get subsidized pretty well, which is a good thing in my book.

        reuters.com/…/us-doubles-renewable-subsidies-156-….

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    • p1mrx@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Solar PV tortillas taste awful and hurt my teeth.

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  • DanglingFury@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Everything I find shows them as still being subsidized and receiving the lions share of energy subsidies, which is fine in my book.

    …wikipedia.org/…/Energy_subsidies_in_the_United_S….

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    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Everything I find shows them as still being subsidized and receiving the lions share of energy subsidies

      According to Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, the bulk of our state and federal subsidies are tilted towards fossil fuels.

      As we’ll hear today, the United States subsidizes the fossil fuel industry with taxpayer dollars. It’s not just the US: according to the International Energy Agency, fossil fuel handouts hit a global high of $1 trillion in 2022 – the same year Big Oil pulled in a record $4 trillion of income.

      In the United States, by some estimates taxpayers pay about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry. What do we get for that? Economists generally agree: not much. To quote conservative economist Gib Metcalf: these subsidies offer “little if any benefit in the form of oil patch jobs, lower prices at the pump, or increased energy security for the country.” The cash subsidy is both big and wrong.

      It should be noted that your link only explores federal subsidies, while Whitehouse notes the bulk of subsidization that happen at the state and local level. Texas, for instance, invests enormously in public works that benefit fossil fuel producers while offering the administrative offices generous grants and tax forbearances to operate within the state.

      Because energy consumption underpins the bulk of our commercial activities, there is a real net-benefit to keeping raw fuel and electricity prices artificially low. Market rate energy would constrict capital construction and real estate development, reduce employment rates, and increase inflation - generally speaking, it would cut into long term economic growth. The OPEC embargo of the 70s demonstrated as much.

      At the same time, fossil fuel consumption yields a host of side-effects - degradation of air and water quality, rising global temperatures leading to more sever weather and sea levels which increase the rate of coastal erosion, wholesale destruction of agricultural land and waterways where spills occur, etc.

      So subsidies aren’t bad on their face, but fossil fuel subsidies - particularly at the scale of current energy consumption - carry far too many negative externalities to be considered good long term policy.

      Unfortunately, the political benefits of fossil fuel subsidy continue to outweigh the social consequences, leading to a political class that is financially invested in continuing subsidies that have long since transformed into a net negative for domestic growth.

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      • DanglingFury@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Excellent distinction. Ty for the info

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    • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The US has been subsidizing energy infrastructure transitions for over a hundred years. When coal power, nuclear power, hydro etc were new initiatives they all had a big helping hand from tax dollars.

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    • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yes they are still heavily subsidized, but according to Lazard’s Levelized Cost of Energy Analysis utility-scale solar and wind are lower cost ($/MWh) than most other forms of electricity generation, even when unsubsidized. That has been true since at least the 2016 version of the report (check out the chart on page 2). In the 2023 version this is still true.

      Wind power in particular is just ridiculously cheap to install and operate, which is why there have been so many new installations over the past decade. Spending money on any other new power generators just looks financially irresponsible at this point. I think this is part of why new nuclear projects keep dying - they get more expensive while wind and solar get cheaper.

      Unfortunately, in comparison rooftop residential solar looks like a bad investment.

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  • joyjoy@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    So now the coal and oil power plants require government subsidies.

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    • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      whitehouse.gov/…/fact-sheet-biden-administration-…

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• Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  It is now. But only after we invested in it.

  This is a great example of investing in tech even when it’s not practical in the present day. It can pay off later down the line.

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  • Rapidcreek@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Well that and the US fracked a shit ton of natural gas which became the goto fuel to burn.

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    • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Natural gas isn’t emissions free. We’re talking about wind, hydro, nuclear, and solar.

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• SeaJ@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  A good chunk of that is nuclear which is not cheaper to operate.

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