If the citizens of the countries that can exert some pressure on other genocidal countries do nothing who will?
Your logic is no different to saying people involved in WW2 should have mind their own businesses unless directly attacked by the Nazis.
You also fail to recognise that, as history teaches, oppression somewhere in the world can quickly be exported to you country.
And most importantly, unless you are a soulless person with no sense of empathy, we should care about suffering anywhere in the world.
bampop@lemmy.world 3 days ago
If you can get arrested and jailed for wearing a shirt saying “from the river to the sea”, that means your government is suppressing your free speech in service to the genocidal regime of a different country. Even if you don’t care about the genocide, the subversion of your democracy by a foreign power is something that any responsible citizen should be fighting against.
SarahFromOz@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Best comment in this whole thread
SINCERELY - Thank you !!!
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 days ago
We have no free speech btw. And yes, the government is suppressing and censoring speech because that’s what the political left have been begging them to do for years. Now it’s here and surprise surprise, they thought it wouldn’t be used against them, and now they’re not happy.
ForgottenUsername@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Again so quick to fire you assume that I disagree with you.
Something to consider though, we do have free speech in this country and its likely and this case will get thrown out.
But also tell me how wearing a t shirt constructively convinces others to share our point of view? Quite the contrary I imagine others who don’t share the same opinion will go ‘avoid this person before they shout at me for having a different point of view’
And do you know a better way to make a movement in this country than if everyone is able to convince someone else to share (or perhaps just lean closer to) a common opinion/belief. So if instead of pissing off alternative points of view, have an open chat, you might change ppls minds. 1 million voices is better than 100,000 voices, and 25 million voices is better than 1 million. And an open chat is not wearing a tshirt.
But first people need to actually talk and listen to each other instead of shouting and hating each other.
bampop@lemmy.world 3 days ago
You assume that I assume that you disagree with me.
Well, I am making a counterpoint to your comments about people having nothing better to do and not having a common goal as a collective. This one woman achieved something extremely worthwhile, and probably wasn’t working in isolation. She brought attention to some absurd bans on free speech, and by calling the government’s bluff on it, helped to reduce the chilling effect on dissent that such restrictions are intended to create. It takes courage, but the most effective way to oppose an unjust law is to break that law, openly and with as much publicity as possible. It draws attention to what is wrong in a way that an open chat simply fails to do.
I’m not opposed to verbal persuasion, but it has limitations. Sure you might be able to convince one person of something in a face to face conversation. But that’s small fry compared to the influence of internet forums, which have become overrun with bots, paid shills, foreign interference, partisan moderators and hidden algorithms designed to maximize engagement and promote particular viewpoints.
Sure you can try to change people’s minds and/or maintain a balanced worldview in that arena. But any large scale forum for talk tends to create delusion, division and outrage, by design. It keeps dissent in a form that is limited and manipulated. Keep talking by all means, but people like this woman are doing more to improve the world than mere talk ever could.
ForgottenUsername@lemmy.world 3 days ago
All I say to this is, if you witness these events you’ll see it is often students around uni age, or retirees, both with too much time on thier hands. You wont see the 28 year old mum of two, or the 38 year old fella trying to make it in banking. Cos they are at work, contributing to society. This very event was a student group.
This girl achieved nothing except getting a permanent stamp on her criminal record, and costing the tax payer more dollars.
This is why I say a more persuasive approach is better, it’s more effective and will change other points of view. Is it more difficult, I agree with you, but no one is gonna witness what happened here and go ‘geez I’ve been wrong all this time and now I’m gonna change my point of view’ so continuing it will always lead to a more isolated (but loud) group instead of a broader movement.
That’s why I say instead of going to a protest chat with your social group and respectfully bring up the issue, listen and have a respectful sharing of ideas, you might walk away with 3 or 4 more people leave that have changed thier point of view, and another 2 that have had thiers challenged, and are now closer to yours. That is far more effective than this entire event, and if everyone did this, you’d be amazed at the change that would happen.
Zephorah@discuss.online 3 days ago
Wearing a shirt doesn’t, but then why should the government care? The answer is they shouldn’t.
Punchinb nazis used to be cool. Now, when the forner victims of genocide pay that genocide forward, governments defend it, going so far as to prosecute their own for saying “I don’t like it”.
A normal government reply would be: cool, enjoy your angst. Instead, they spend money and energy on it which is not normal.
ForgottenUsername@lemmy.world 3 days ago
I agree with you they shouldn’t care about a tshirt, and if the case was challenged it would likely get thrown out, forcing them to make new laws.
To be clear, punching anyone is not cool, and it’s this kind of hateful thinking that makes wars. “Well it’s okays to physically hurt this person cos they think/believe/are different”.
It is this opinion that people on either side of the war effort use to justify thier actions, either it’s right to physically harm palestinians cos they are different, or it is right to harm israelis again cos they are different. That’s part of the problem not the solution, it will always make the situation of you punch them so they punch back and now your fighting.
toad@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
Let’s have a quiet conversation about bombing your family with white phosphorus. You can start :)
ForgottenUsername@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Mate I’m super sorry this happened to you. No one deserves it and it shouldn’t happen period.
My point however is the name calling as you did in the other comments on my posts and shouting at me, is not the constructive discussion that will start a movement against this. People will just tune out or worse yet actively oppose you. You will ostracise others and cement thier point of view. Which will disrupt the ability to build a movement against these actions.