That’s changing as broader electrification takes hold, and even today, it takes a lot less fossil fuels than just running directly on burning stuff
Comment on How Fossil Fuel Disruptions Lead to Booms in Solar and Batteries
eleitl@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
News flash: you need fossil fuels to create and maintain renewable infrastructure.
silence7@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
eleitl@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
It’s not changing, look at the industrial fabrication and supply chain for solar PV and wind. None of that is powered by renewable electricity.
Renewable infra are a fossil multiplier (but not by much), but the total fraction of fossil in primary energy use is effectively constant, because use of fossil fuels is also increasing.
silence7@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
What I see is a system that’s steadily shifting from dieect fossil fuel use to electricity, and with that, reducing the amount of fossil fuels burned. We’re not done making the change, but it has definitely started
eleitl@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Thing is, there is no energy transition. Renewable infrastructure, built using fossil fuels is stacked on top of rising fossil energy use i0.wp.com/…/World-energy-fossil-fuels-vs-add-ons.…
zd9@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s primarily a political issue at this point. While there will always be some need for fossil fuels, a decent majority of our transportation and manufacturing infrastructure can be electrified.
eleitl@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Assertions do not make a reality. Transportation is only a fraction of primary energy use, but even there: ship diesels burning bunker fuel and jets burning aviation kerosene have 40+ MJ/l energy density going for them. Prohibitive for air transport. Ships, look at energy density of sodium ion and the price point of a battery bank needed to cross an ocean.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Only because we choose to do that.
eleitl@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
No, while biology (self-rep ISRU with mostly CHNOPS) shows it’s feasible, it’s a hard engineering problem – which is not even on our radars yet. And the hour is very, very late indeed.
JacobCoffinWrites@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
Much like how when automobiles were new, you could prove they weren’t actually viable because you still needed horse carts to haul the iron ore, and the coal to smelt it from the mines. The idea that someday the entire fleet of mining and transportation equipment would use internal combustion engines seemed quite impossible.
Probably there’s no way to transition to electric mining equipment, electric smelters, electric battery recycling facilities, and electric transport fleets.
Some would call it a bootstrap problem but it’s possible you’re right and there’s no way to transition from one suite of existing technologies to a new, cheaper one.
eleitl@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
We know if fundamentally feasible, photosynthetic organisms can do it with just local resources, with reasonable replication rate and some excess sufficient to sustain the global ecosystem.
However, we don’t know how to do that, and, worse, we have stopped pursuing that development route. Some dream that we’ll get general artificial intelligence Real Soon Now which can bootstrap molecular nanotechnology in a short time frame that we have left.
Could happen, but that probability is pretty damn low.
JacobCoffinWrites@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
Sorry, I suspect my sarcasm may have passed you by. They already make electric mining/construction equipment, solar powered factories and recycling facilities. Steel smelting can be done with grid-connected electric arc furnaces or solar furnaces. The production of solar panels and wind turbines may not be fully detached from oil for some time, but then horses played an important role in heavy industry for decades alongside gasoline and diesel trucks and steel hulled sail ships were still hauling grain well into the 1950s. These transitions are always uneven and the tipping point can be hard to spot even with hindsight, let alone while it’s happening.
eleitl@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Gigantism in mining trucks like Belaz 75710 www.lectura-specs.com/en/model/…/75710-11738579 with 360 tons and 1.7 MW diesel-electric hybrids – which frequently run 24/7 is due to ore grade depletion. You might want to run the numbers of how a sodium-ion mining truck would look like, and how long it would have to recharge. Notice the tires, they’re made from at least partly synthetic rubber. What you don’t see is lubricants, also synthetic. Polymers, synthetic. Notice the amount of structural steel.
Solar PV with battery buffers (necessary for 24/7 industrial processes) has ERoEI of less than 4 which is insufficient to maintain a complex industrial society. You can try to substitute some of that with small-batch fast (running just during the day or whenever the wind blows) processes, but that will be the minority.
You mention horses a lot – these will be needed again, after the industrial age. And slaves, and ships made of wood. Which will do fine in a world with maybe 100 million people. Maybe a lot less.