Capitalism doesn’t work. And sadly capitalism never allowed communism to work. Because the greed of the few outweighed the needs of he many.
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merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month agoOk, but how about something instead of communism, because that never works.
ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca 1 month ago
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Capitalism works a lot better than communism. At least countries that are vaguely capitalist still exist and can realistically be described as capitalist today. Countries that claim to be communist are authoritarian, or authoritarian plus capitalist.
mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 month ago
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
How many died under feudalism? How many did Pol Pot kill?
Every system is going to have issues. So far, every other system has resulted in much more death and misery than capitalism.
hector@lemmy.today 1 month ago
All capitalist countries have elements of socialism, a mix is probably the best scenario, and indeed to have private benefit corporations and co ops to fulfill needs the private sector is unwilling and unable to provide the needs for equitably.
The idealogues of the right talk a lot of shit, but capitalism doesn’t work without controls, the free market destroys itself, and leads to consolidation, to one company, becoming sort of communist as the opposite ends come back together in a circle between free market and controlled economy. Somalia should be a free market paradise according to the dogma of the billionaires funding libertarianism and the republican party’s think tanks.
Capital is too greedy to do what’s in it’s own interests and will destroy itself like yeast in a wort producing alcohol that will kill that yeast above a certain percentage.
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
The idealogues of the right talk a lot of shit, but capitalism doesn’t work without controls
If you read the writings of people like Adam Smith, they expected the government to have a lot of control. Their idea of capitalism involved a lot of government supervision. The core idea of capitalism that everyone would benefit because of competition. Competition leads to winners, but if the winners get too big then they can squeeze out their competitors. That’s why capitalism only works if there’s a government to step in and keep the “winner” from getting too big so it can dominate.
When a lot of people say they hate capitalism, what they really hate is the winner-take-all part, which isn’t supposed to happen if the government is doing its job. 10 companies all trying to win your business by offering the best product for your needs at the best price they can manage is great. One company that operates at a choke point in your world and squeezes as much money out of you as possible sucks.
You could argue that communism is also supposed to work if the government does its job and ensures that everybody’s needs are met and that everybody is equal. IMO the difference is that capitalism at least sort-of works in practice, not just in theory. Yes, there’s a lot of corruption, regulatory capture, etc. in a capitalist system, which isn’t supposed to happen. But, you still can get upstart businesses displacing old and dominant companies that fail to innovate. Meanwhile, supposedly “communist” governments very quickly collapse into authoritarian systems with an elite class that siphons off the wealth of everyone else. It’s a great system in theory, but in practice it just doesn’t seem compatible with actual fallible, corruptible people. Maybe capitalism is more successful because it accepts that people are flawed and greedy and tries to channel that in ways that benefit the public. Communism seems to believe that people don’t have those flaws. As a result, there doesn’t seem to be part of the communist approach that allows people to channel their competitive and greedy impulses. So, instead, they just corrupt the system and establish themselves as a ruling class.
ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca 1 month ago
Well I’m glad capitalism works well for you. But it doesn’t work well for the 99% of the population in capitalist countries where they can’t make ends meet while capitalists hold all the money in the world.
Under capitalism, people are sleeping in tents in parks and on the side of the road, freezing to death or dying of heat strokes. People are lining up to food banks which can’t even supply everyone because of how much demand has increased, while grocery stores are stocked to the brim, but the food is unaffordable. People suffer health issues and die of preventable causes because healthcare is becoming less accessible or is just too expensive. Even education is unaccessible in a few places because of the costs. And for what? So a few corporations can make even more profit than they already are?
At least under communism, everyone has a roof over their head. Everyone has food on their table. Everyone has healthcare. Everyone has a job or at least a purpose in society. And communist countries seem to progress much faster than capitalist countries as well. The Soviet Union initiated the space race. They’ve always kept the pace with the rest of the world in technology and innovation. And if you look at China now, they’re essentially the world leader at this point.
You wanna talk about authoritarianism? Look in the U.S. The moment you start to criticize anything, you either get a visit from the cops, or if you protest you get beat up by an army of police officers. U.S. democracy is a sham. Otherwise you wouldn’t have had people like the Clintons, the Bush or Trump as presidents. These people are put there by the billionaire elites, then they manipulate the population into electing them through the media that they own.
For the record, I’m not saying China is any better in that regard. Freedom of expression is not exactly their thing. There’s a lot of things to look up to with China, but human rights and freedom of expression are not any of them. But, the U.S. aren’t any better.
Communism has a bad rap because U.S. imperialism never allowed it to flourish and reach it’s potential anywhere. It’s been stigmatized and portrayed in such a way that it made people scared of it.
I’m confident that if we allowed communism to enter our democracies it would be for the best. Because, for once, the government would start taking care of its people and its workers instead of the corporate leeches.
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
I’m confident that if we allowed communism to enter our democracies it would be for the best.
Because it worked so well for…?
Because, for once, the government would start taking care of its people and its workers instead of the corporate leeches.
Because that happened in…?
knatschus@discuss.tchncs.de 1 month ago
That’s so far because either a elite group gets in power and turns it into feudalism again, or the us intervenes because communism shall not work.
We didn’t throw away democracy just because the french revolution failed at first.
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
That’s so far because either a elite group gets in power and turns it into feudalism again
If it always collapses into feudalism / authoritarianism, it’s not a workable system.
We didn’t throw away democracy just because the french revolution failed at first.
The French and the Americans had historical working versions of democracy to consider, like the Athenian system. Communism just fails over and over again every time it’s tried.
NannerBanner@literature.cafe 1 month ago
The famous athenian system where slaves were tortured for testimony because their testimony wasn’t admitted without torture because they would ‘otherwise lie?’
The famous athenian system where the military quite literally marched 10 miles in one direction, then 10 miles in the other direction the next day because control of the army was transferred from day to day between different generals?
The famous athenian system where a philosopher was sentenced to death because he was teaching the youth to think differently?*
Sounds like democracy fails over and over again every time it’s tried. For every example you could make of communism always failing, somehow, you can make the same of examples with democracy or capitalism. Make better arguments, for the love of water.
spoiler
Well, slightly more complicated than ‘thinking differently.’
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Well, the Americans did incorporate the slavery part of the Athenian system. But, they weren’t complete idiots and they picked and chose parts of it that they thought would make sense in the modern world. Really, the American system was closer to 90% British, with a bit of Athenian democracy mixed in. But, they had a previous system to go by where people were allowed to vote and senators were not born into their position, but elected.
underisk@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
A permanent utopia free from geopolitical influence has yet to be established under any system of government, therefore no government has ever worked.
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Why is “permanent utopia” the criterion? I don’t know of any political system that claims there will be a “permanent utopia”, except maybe dreams of what communism might one day be like.
underisk@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
Well, permanent because if it gets destroyed it you can’t call it successful, and utopia because you need an ideal to measure success against even if its not realistically achievable.
Potatar@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Were carrier pigeons not successful? Just because something is discontinued, doesn’t mean it was not successful for its time when it was deployed?
3abas@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Looking at Vietnam… Seems to work great when the imperialists fall to crush you.
hector@lemmy.today 1 month ago
Vietnam joined the WTO and exploits it’s workers for Wall Street corporations outsourcing from even china to save an extra buck. How is that communist, whoring for wall street?
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
In what ways is Vietnam a communist country?
fodor@lemmy.zip 1 month ago
Who told you that it never works? … Checks notes … the capitalists did.
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
No, it’s my own eyes. You don’t need the capitalists to interpret it for you when you can just look for yourself and see that communism never works.
mattyroses@lemmy.today 1 month ago
What communist country did you live in again?
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Who said I lived in a communist country?
rapchee@lemmy.world 1 month ago
keep in mind, that communism, based on marx’s vision, was supposed to bring democracy to the workplace, on top of democracy in politics, the “worker’s dictatorship” was supposed to be a temporary thing, before the system reaches actual communism
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
I think we can now say that Marx didn’t know how people actually behaved in real life.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Yet never was and could never be.