The truth is in the middle. I know someone who works in the hospital, a lot of the rough sleepers they come across aren’t really helping themselves nor extremely interested in actually getting help. Some people do just take advantage of the system as in our culture we tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. This is why people come over in small boats from France, because they see our empathy as something to be taken advantage of. And it works for them.
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tetris11@feddit.uk 2 days agoI used to think the same, but I’m not so sure anymore. My mum works in the council and she constantly tells me first hand stories of people simply abusing the system. Not one offs, but significant numbers.
Her bitterness about it stems from the fact that many of the families doing it aren’t that integrated into society.
On the one hand, life is fucking tough right now and people should be using whatever advantage they have to get by. On the otherhand, in a fairer world, people wouldn’t be exploiting the system at all.
I never really understand where Tories lie on the spectrum of equity/fairness/corruption given their horrific track record, but I can understand the frustration of seeing others doing better than you should be…
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 day ago
bearboiblake@pawb.social 1 day ago
This is why people come over in small boats from France, because they see our empathy as something to be taken advantage of.
Oh, actually, this isn’t true, usually it’s because they speak English. The UK is quite a nasty place for immigrants.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 day ago
Is it much worse than the rest of Europe? Basically every european country seems to have a populist right wing anti immigration movement
tetris11@feddit.uk 1 day ago
It’s not though. All the major cities have cultural hubs and communities where migrants can find their place amongst their brethren. It used to be one of our strengths.
Compare that to Germany where even the Turks and Italians who have lived there for generations are still seen as oddities to be frowned on.
bearboiblake@pawb.social 1 day ago
The UK pretty consistently scores low compared to other emigration destination countries, and Germany consistently scores higher, actually.
This is one of the mainstream media’s favourite pieces of propaganda. “we’re a soft touch, that’s why migrants come here!” it’s just completely transparently wrong, the reason migrants come here over other countries is because there used to be a British Empire that colonized half the world and as a result lots of people speak far better English than they do German or Swedish. Most of the countries people migrate from we had some hand in destabilizing too.
bearboiblake@pawb.social 1 day ago
a lot of the rough sleepers they come across aren’t really helping themselves nor extremely interested in actually getting help
Unhoused people more often than not have quite a series of issues which are at odds with them helping themselves or proactively seeking help. I think this is the issue with most cases like this where people think others are “exploiting” the system, simply because they don’t know what it’s like to live that person’s life, you know what I mean?
Either way, no matter how many people really do abuse benefits, it doesn’t come anywhere close to the exploitation that the ruling class subject us to.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 day ago
A lot of people probably could be rehabilitated through either rehab programmes or adequate mental health support. Possibly the majority if not all.
it doesn’t come anywhere close to the exploitation that the ruling class subject us to.
Facts.
bearboiblake@pawb.social 1 day ago
Oh yeah, for sure, no doubt - if there was any funding available for such programmes. All the research on this points pretty conclusively towards prioritising getting unhoused people into stable accomodation first and foremost, it’s impossible to recover from PTSD living on the streets for example, and we would also need a robust public health focused approach to drugs, e.g. decriminalizing drugs and treating them as a health issue rather than a criminal one. That, plus funding the NHS appropriately, esp. mental health, would work miracles and change so many people’s lives.
But instead the bastards running the show would rather loot the public purse for all it’s worth to line their pockets before getting a cushy 6 figure job as a lobbyist.
flamingos@feddit.uk 1 day ago
This is why people come over in small boats from France, because they see our empathy as something to be taken advantage of. And it works for them.
I don’t know how you can see abysmal living conditions, hate crime and being subjected to attempted pogroms as ‘works for them’. I’ve linked you stuff in the past telling about how bad conditions are for asylum seekers, I’m honestly getting sick of pushing back on your vibes based, callous anti-asylum seeker rhetoric for it to constantly fall on deaf ears.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 day ago
I’m not anti asylum seeker. I’m anti people taking advantage of the system for legitimate asylum seekers. There are people coming over from France. France isn’t that bad. Also in addition, there’s been attempted pogroms here.
I can’t remember the statistic, but the majority of asylum seekers don’t even come over in small boats. They’re typically legal immigrants who cannot return home or extend their visa. I’m talking about the widely condemned human trafficking industry that takes advantage of our system to make a business of bringing people across the channel.
flamingos@feddit.uk 1 day ago
I’m not anti asylum seeker. I’m anti people taking advantage of the system for legitimate asylum seekers.
Unless you’re from Ukraine or Hong Kong, there’s no way to claim asylum in the UK that doesn’t first involve entering the country illegally.
I can’t remember the statistic, but the majority of asylum seekers don’t even come over in small boats.
About half of asylum applications come across in boats.
I’m talking about the widely condemned human trafficking industry that takes advantage of our system to make a business of bringing people across the channel.
I also want to stop the boats and the exploitative gangs doing this, but any approach that isn’t opening up safe and legal routes for applications to be made is just advocating for everyone else to bear the burden of global instability the UK played a disproportionate role in creating.
Hacksaw@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
There isn’t a single homeless person successfully taking advantage of society. If you’re “successfully” scamming society, why are you destitute??
Lots of homeless are assholes, belligerent, alcoholic, drug addicts, disregard laws, rules, and procedures. But they’re not “taking advantage”. If they were UNFAIRLY benefiting then they would by definition have more than the bare minimum required to live a decent life, not LESS. It’s the system that’s depriving all of us of the necessities of a dignified life, putting them behind a paywall.
bearboiblake@pawb.social 2 days ago
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
tetris11@feddit.uk 1 day ago
She’s seeing people who have paid taxes here not reaping the benefits of the social welfare they have paid into, whilst dealing with the disconnect of seeing others who seem to be dodging taxes altogether reaping more benefits.
It’s a hard pill for her to swallow, as someone who always did things by the books.
I’ve told her billionaries operate under the same modus operandi, but that does little to assay her bitterness
bearboiblake@pawb.social 1 day ago
I’m picking up a vibe that their ethnicity might be something she mentions, am I right? Not being accusatory or anything here, just trying to have an honest conversation.
tetris11@feddit.uk 1 day ago
She mentions their level of english, not their ethnicity. I think for her its more the contrast of how savvy they are navigating the system despite their seeming inability to converse with it