Comment on Trump Is Obsessed With Oil. But Chinese Batteries Will Soon Run the World

Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• Atomic@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It is a lot more complex than “Europe is actually following America more than China in this”.

  Europe have very limited lithium deposits compared to China. Europe is trying to be as self sustaining as possible, especially now that the US have shown themselves to be a highly unreliable partner.

  So exchanging one dependency for another is a poor lateral move at best.

  You can’t just start digging up the entire ground and make car batteries out of all lithium you find.

  European universities all over are researching alternative battery technology that doesn’t rely as much on lithium.

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  • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    None of that is true. There is lithium everywhere, Germany just found 45 million tonnes of it. People have been digging up the entire ground for oil for 200 years.

    You can research all you want, but the periodic table is not changing, and Chinese R&D is decades ahead of the West.

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    • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You can research all you want, but the periodic table is not changing, and Chinese R&D is decades ahead of the West.

      Chinese Sodium-Ion Batteries enter the chat

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    • Atomic@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah, they just found it late last year. And still working out how they should bring it up. They’ve made estimates on the amount, i’m not qualified to verify their estimates.

      If they can actually bring it up we have security in the materials required to make the research worth it.

      But no, we have not dug up all of the ground to get oil. Oil is a lot more liquid than lithium ore. We can pump up the oil without having to excavate the entire surrounding area.

      I’m not saying that to defend oil. But the funny part about it is that if they had dug up all of the ground to get it, they would have found their lithium deposits sooner. Because they found it in an oil-field.

      You can research all you want, but the periodic table is not changing, and Chinese R&D is decades ahead of the West.

      What does that even mean? Do you have any idea how long ago it was since we found the last naturally occurring element? Should we have just stoped all research I the early 1900’s because “the periodic table is not changing”. Dumbest shit I’ve heard all years. And yes, I did hear about Trumps email to Norway. You still win.

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      • makingrain@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Adding to your comment: Lithium brines are extracted through drilled wells, it’s not always ore.

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  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yeah, well, there’s no oil in Europe either, so ICE cars are even worse for a self-sustaining Europe (at least Lithum is only consumed once for an EV car, whilst oil is need all the time for ICE cars)

    Your entire “argument” is one big cherry picked excuse.

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    • REDACTED@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      there’s no Oil in Europe either

      Confused European noises

      tradingeconomics.com/…/crude-oil-production?conti…

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    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah, well, there’s no Oil in Europe either,

      C’mon. I’m a dumb American, but even I know without looking it up about Norway’s vast petroleum production as well as the North Sea petroleum platforms off the coast of Scotland.

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    • Atomic@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’m not arguing for oil. Yet the current production costs for lithium batteries, compared to their lifecycle, rivals that of combustion propulsion. That doesn’t mean we should stop researching and finding better methods. But it’s far from as “environmentally” friendly as you think it is.

      Oh, and Europe have oil. Plenty of it. Where would you like start? The coast outside Norway? The vast natural gas reserves in western Russia? The ocean outside of Scotland, maybe it just happenes to be a shit ton of oil under Greenland which is 100% unrelated to why Trump wants to own it.

      I’m still not arguing for or against oil. I’m saying Europe isn’t following the US, and Europe isn’t interested in following China either. Europe is interested in carving out sustainability for themselves without US or China.

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  • clot27@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Russia has alot of gas

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• MrMakabar@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  And, of course, the crooked politicians here in Europe are actually following America more than China in this.

  That is much less the case then it might appear. Out of the Top10 largest EV makers three are European(Volkswagen, BMW and Stellantis). When you look at wind, Europe has a few of the largest companies in the world. Europe is also basically the only place even attempting to compete with China in batteries, since Trump cut US support for that industry. There are plenty of more niche industries as well, in which Europe has some very strong companies.

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• BoJackHorseman@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Erm you really should trust American companies with your data en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act

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  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Well informed people knew that it wasn’t safe already for quite a while.

    Most people did not, most companies did not, most public institutions either did not or could make believed they did not.

    That’s changing (as are lots of other things) because Trump is being far more loud about how Europe is an adversary of America than previous administrations.

    There was quite a lot of fighting against treating America as a safe haven for the data of Europeans from people in the know in Tech and IT Security in Europe but we lost, but now crooked politicians can’t make believe America or American companies are safe for the data of Europeans anymore.

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