When the US briefly revoked command and control (think, satellite connections, real time intelligence, missile warning etc) Ukraine suffered heavy casualties quickly. Were thr US to walk away, neither Ukraine or NATO has those same capabilities. NATO minus US vs Russia, in the immediate future would be incredibly bloody and possibly fall in Russia’s favour.
Comment on Instead of everyone leaving NATO, could everyone else just kick the US out?
krashmo@lemmy.world 1 day agoRussia can’t even handle Ukraine. What are they going to do against the rest of NATO, even without the US?
MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca 1 day ago
gothic_lemons@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Russia doesn’t have those capabilities either. They duck tape consumer grade GPS units for cars into their fighter jets built in the 70s. The war in the Ukraine has exhausted aka destroyed a huge amount of Russian equipment. Tanks, jets, ships, and fucking subs. They are using fucking donkeys for Christ sake to supply the front line with ammo.
NATO minus the USA vs Russia would be tough but if one or two NATO countries fight like Ukraine has then Russia is toast. And if NATO sticks together that is.
MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca 22 hours ago
Two things can be simultaneously true:
1) Russia has suffered substantial loss of materiel etc.
2) Russia still has effective command and control systems. Whereas the EU depends heavily on America for advanced targeting (think the Ukranian long range missile strikes on refineries in recent months.)
Here’s a fairly accessible article on some of the difficulties/timelines for a post American NATO:
(Notable quote from someone wiser than myself “We’re almost completely dependent on U.S. intelligence for satellite and everything that goes with it")
Potatar@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
Imagine you are doing a tarzan vine jump, and I cut your vine while you are jumping then say “See, you wouldn’t be able to do it without the vines!!!”. Yeah man, timing matters.
Klear@quokk.au 1 day ago
Break it up using his puppet in the white house.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Well, Russia is sort of holding back. They have tactical nukes, not sure how many of those nato has without the US. And going ballistic doesn’t end well for anyone. But Russia need the land of major nato members. They will pick on non-nato countries mostly, and more often they will do it by cutting off trade routes and such. Maybe they use thier now seasoned military to pick off some minor nato members, just to distract Nato from everything else. With the US pulling back from the international stage, Russia and Chine can divvy up a lot of the world.
michaelmrose@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Not using nukes isn’t holding back its not inviting armageddon.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
The tactical ones are a grey area. They can be small enough not to end the world. They can also have far less long term effects than the larger and older ones. In short, you could nuke a military base as apposed to a city. They can be delivered as an artilery shell. So if Russia used one. I doubt the world would immediately luanch thier strategic arsenal in response.
someguy3@lemmy.world 1 day ago
They aren’t going to invade the UK, but they want them out of the EU. You sabotage your enemy as much as possible, even if you’re not going to war immediately. Take down the strongest military alliance (or cut in half if you want) in history that’s been in place for 70 years, yeah that’s a huge massive jizz in your pants accomplisment. Your entire framing is frankly wrong.