Flax_vert@feddit.uk 5 days ago
This is my main issue with modern gender theory, honestly. Either gender is a fixed biological reality, or it’s completely irrelevant, non existent and a man-made concept. Sure, I can respect how other people identify, but if gender is simply a social construct, then I don’t understand how someone could be transgender.
So for someone to feel gender dysphoria, I believe that there should be some form of biological reality; even if we haven’t pinned it down yet. Maybe something to do with what chromosomes or hormones affect the mind compared to the body, or something else causing it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not really my business anyway so I don’t care that much, as long as the person in question is comfortable and healthy
From natural reasoning,
You mean from fallacy
either gender is a fixed biological reality, or it’s completely irrelevant, non existent and a man-made concept.
False dichotomy, it could be a third thing. Also the idea that “socially constructed” things are somehow unworthy of consideration, or irrelevant is not true. Consider some things that we know are “man-made”: sovereignty, laws, borders, language, authority, religion, democracy, human-rights, and class. Think those things are “irrelevant”?
Explain the “third thing?”
If gender is man-made, I don’t see what positive purpose it serves.
Most children and teenagers with gender dysphoria grow out of it on their own. Giving children and teens easy access to strong drugs that will affect their whole future life, is something that should be questioned. Children know little, struggle to find their identity, are easily influenced, and often make stupid decisions. Societal roles help children orient and find their way around the world. How can we expect a child to understand something as complex as gender fully to make an informed decision?
Gender dysphoria rarely comes alone, usually it’s comorbid with a bunch of other psychological issues. Then transition is often presented as the one treatment that will fix everything. It often fails to do that.
Trans issues are mental health issues. They have been politicized by making it about identity and attaching it to the political struggle of gay and bi people. No other mental health issue has that kind of political clout and rigid ideology attached to it. The political activism has glued itself to radical ideas.
Scientific research into trans issues has become difficult to conduct, because if you have the „wrong“ results, you might not have a career and be labeled transphobic. In the end it’s trans people themselves who suffer the most from this.
Helping people live a healthy and fulfilling life should be the goal. If someone transitioning is the only thing that helps someone, then by all means go for it.
Most children and teenagers with gender dysphoria grow out of it on their own.
Do you have statistics to back this up?
Giving children and teens easy access to strong drugs that will affect their whole future life
Do puberty blockers have this effect?
Gender dysphoria rarely comes alone, usually it’s comorbid with a bunch of other psychological issues. Then transition is often presented as the one treatment that will fix everything. It often fails to do that.
Any more statistics?
No other mental health issue has that kind of political clout and rigid ideology attached to it. The political activism has glued itself to radical ideas.
Scientific research into trans issues has become difficult to conduct, because if you have the „wrong“ results, you might not have a career and be labeled transphobic. In the end it’s trans people themselves who suffer the most from this.
I would agree that this is something that we should be concerned about. I think a recent example was the Cass report in the UK.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2147/AHMT.S135432
Evidence from the 10 available
prospective follow-up studies from childhood to adolescence
(reviewed in the study by Ristori and Steensma28) indicates
that for \~80% of children who meet the criteria for GDC,
the GD recedes with puberty
Puberty blockers are a strong change in your life and a severe intrusion into the natural development of a body. Instead of going through puberty like most other kids, the child will be behind in their physical development by years. That can lead to social and psychological problems of course.
There’s generally not much quality research into the long term effects, as you can read repeatedly in [the Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker#Research].
That’s very enlightening and thought-provoking material. The detransition figures about people being abandoned is disturbing. Thank you for this.
As for the mental health issues- some could argue that the Gender Dysphoria causes these issues, and that these issues are side effects of Gender Dysphoria. So I’m not too sure if existing mental health issues invalidates gender dysphoria.
Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com 5 days ago
I don’t understand how you can’t? Society constructed it, so it exists. Take a rudimentary construction.
A house. There isn’t a “house” partical/chemical/gene/brain structure. Does that mean the house doesn’t exist? Society didn’t have to construct a house, it could have constructed a road or a bus stop, does that mean the house doesn’t exist?
The house exists, we can point to it, we can point to the effects it has on the world: it’s a house now, you can’t just walk in without the owner’s permission or society will punish you.
I have no idea whether gender has a physical component particul/chemical/gene/brain structure/… But, even granting it doesn’t, it doesn’t mean gender doesn’t exist. Gender not having a physical componentcould mean gender doesn’t have to exist.
Like the house, it didn’t have to exist. It doesn’t have to be protected by society the way it currently is. It doesn’t always have to be a house. It still exists though.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 5 days ago
Sure, you can be assigned a gender at birth, but if gender is meaningless then why would you feel the need to change it?
A house is different to a factory by most definitions, so they are different. If men and women are equal in capability of skill, then I don’t see why you’d want to change it. Again, I don’t criticise someone’s decision, that’s their decision, but there must be something (not excluding something a dysphoria that could have been present since birth, or saying something stupid like “xyz causes transgender”) causing them to question their gender.
Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com 4 days ago
But it isn’t meaningless. Society gives meaning to gender. Woman means dresses, man means beard. It’s discordant when you see a person with a beard in a dress. Less so now, as we’re pushing against gender being what defines fashion.
A house has meaning, there are specific laws and regulations that govern how you and I interact with it, but there’s nothing fundamentally “House"y about it. Remove all society and that building is just a building.
That doesn’t mean that “House” is meaningless, it isnt. “House” could be meaningless, but it isn’t currently. We give it meaning.
Taking the least gracious interpretation of transgender: gender is entirely performative. A person assigned Male at Birth grows up thinking that: how 'Man” is performed sucks, but how “woman” is performed is awesome. That’s still, as we agree, a valid experience.
Honestly, I don’t that Trans people want to be trans. What about the trans experience is attractive to you that makes you think people want it? The meds? The surgery? The bigotry they face? The gender dysphoria? Is it the chosen family because many of them were disowned by their biological one? They go through these things because not doing so would be worse.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 days ago
I never said the trans experience was attractive. I’m just trying to figure things out. I guess a third position is then that “gender is meaningless, but just play along”. Possibly similar to a position of “there is no objective morality, just play along” which I cannot seemingly rationalise. Abolishing the idea of gender entirely seems more rational ¯\_(ツ)_/¯