Fair, I’m not sure what the solution would be though, even if you explicitly want to optimize for getting as many people as possible using decentralized social media regardless of their politics or cultural preference.
Tbh I think of Lemmy in the same terms. Like, people contemplating coming here from e.g. Reddit could block all the anti-Western propaganda (e.g. calling for actual murder against us), and find some pools of content that are halfway worthwhile… but like, why would they bother? For the ideological purity of not contributing to enshittification? Anyone who thinks that way is already here though.
Whether facing “leftist” tankies on Lemmy or “conservative” right-wingers on Nostr, mainstream non-technical normie users are going to just nope right out of either.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
OpenStars@piefed.social 1 day ago
If you want an abortion, but your neighbor is willing to fully, literally, and actually kill you for attempting to get one, then how do you get along? Indeed…
The above example is auth-right, while tankies are auth-left. The common denominator is the auth part. You either give in and do whatever the other side wants, or… you do not do that.
Platforming the auth-left seems similar to trying to get people to join Reddit. Either way you are helping someone else feed forward their agenda, which will ultimately arrive at a bad ending.
I do note that PieFed is building an entirely new future, neither platforming tankies nor seeking profits to the exclusion of all else. I am putting my hopes into it.
MITM0@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Honestly normies shouldn’t even be on the internet
floofloof@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
If you avoid one or two instances you rarely encounter tankies on Lemmy.
OpenStars@piefed.social 1 day ago
Almost no instances defederate from Lemmy.ml. And I had accounts on multiple instances that federated with both lemmygrad.ml and Hexbear.net. None of that was explained anywhere, we early adopters just had to figure it out.
And who tells new people to avoid Lemmy.ml in the first place? That join Lemmy website that “randomly” picks an instance for you has even selected it for me, as well as hexbear.net.
Face it: we are a Nazi bar. Yes it’s possible to walk through the crowd of Nazis at the front door to our corner of the room where it’s cool, but I understand if my Jewish friends will refuse to accept my invitations, seeing who they will encounter on the way over.
floofloof@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Tankies are typically authoritarian communists, not Nazis, and antisemitism isn’t usually a part of their outlook. You’ll find far more fascists on other social media platforms.
OpenStars@piefed.social 1 day ago
Sorry for being confusing, but you are correct, tankies are not literal Nazis - I was referring to the Paradox of Tolerance whereby, as some may consider paradoxically, when we attempt to tolerate everyone then in reality we will become less free than if we would exclude those who would act to take freedom away from others (this logical principle is often called by the “Nazi bar” effect, where you yourself may not be an actual “Nazi”, or in our case a tankie, and yet by virtue of association we are seen as such by Redditors who might otherwise flock here and contribute much more content than we currently have here).
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 day ago
so just nazi-lite, just without most of the racism and bigotry. from what ive seen alot of them posting on here, comment the same way conservatives do, same shtick
rozodru@pie.andmc.ca 1 day ago
I think you hit the nail on the head. I run my own piefeed instance and I have lemmy.ml and hexbear a long with a few others blocked on it. But I had to KNOW about those before hand. It’s not like Reddit where you pretty much have to go looking for that content if you want to see it and/or block it.
I’m by no means a fan of moderation but I think we need to at least have some kind of rating system when selecting an instance or something and not have it be purely based on user count. Have it similar to how we already have it with users where you can see without clicking on anything if a user has a bad reputation. just add that to instances.
OpenStars@piefed.social 1 day ago
There is such a thing for Lemmy, and Lemmy.ml has a “good reputation” listed on it.
See it here: https://gui.fediseer.com/instances/detail/lemmy.ml, noting the 15 “endorsements” (think upvotes) and only 2 “censures” (think downvotes), with another 2 “hesitations”. Fwiw, PieFed.social has 6 endorsements (all by Lemmy instances iirc) and 0 censures and 0 hesitations. lemmy.dbzer0.com has 49 endorsements, 136 censures, and 2 more hesitations.
So people definitely put censures and hesitations for some instances… just not lemmy.ml. Possibly the system admins are too afraid of being known by the very developers of the code that they are running on their machines to call it out? (I don’t have to remind you of all people that system admins in most countries cannot be anonymous - unlike the rest of us, most people in that situation have to register with their country to be responsible for the content shown, e.g. CSAM). Mainly around lemmy.ml there is simply… silence, by the vast majority of the Threadiverse.
Which matches every other policy surrounding Lemmy.ml around the Threadiverse: chiefly silence (at the “official” levels, e.g. sidebar text on an instance or in official documentation), leaving new people to have to constantly keep discovering what is going on regarding it, mainly on their own.