Comment on YSK Joseph Stalin created the Great Terror. He started killing people randomly including artists, generals, doctors, diplomats, government officials. Everyone was terrified.

• MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I honestly have no issue there. My issue is the claim that such atrocities don’t happen in democratic institutions.

  I can’t recall any democratic countries, fragile or not, that can hold a candle to the atrocities committed by Joseph Stalin.

  Can you point out the equivalent that we should look at in this case of whataboutism? Since we’re talking about millions being killed by Joseph Stalin, what are the comparables?

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  • sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Before the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the archival revelations, some historians estimated that the numbers killed by Stalin’s regime were 20 million or higher.[5][6][7] After the Soviet Union dissolved, evidence from the Soviet archives was declassified and researchers were allowed to study it. This contained official records of 799,455 executions (1921–1953),[8][9][10][11][12] around 1.5 to 1.7 million deaths in the Gulag,[13][14][15] some 390,000[16] deaths during the dekulakization forced resettlement, and up to 400,000 deaths of persons deported during the 1940s,[17] with a total of about 3.3 million officially recorded victims in these categories.[18] According to historian Stephen Wheatcroft, approximately 1 million of these deaths were “purposive” while the rest happened through neglect and irresponsibility.[2] The deaths of at least 5.5 to 6.5 million[19] persons in the Soviet famine of 1932–1933 are sometimes included with the victims of the Stalin era.[2][20] - wikipedia

    So being generous we’ll go high and say 10 million

    According to the World Health Organization (WHO), around 9 million people die annually from hunger and malnutrition, mostly in regions where capitalist-driven global inequality has made basic necessities unaffordable or inaccessible.

    So less in a year due to capitalism (ignoring wars and whatnot) than the total of Stalin. But also dealing with huge differences in populations involved. Both seem pretty shitty if you ask me.

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    • MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      An estimated 30 local NKVD agents, guards and drivers were pressed into service to escort prisoners to the basement, confirm identification, then remove the bodies and hose down the blood after each execution. Although some of the executions were carried out by Senior Lieutenant of State Security Andrei Rubanov, Blokhin was the primary executioner and, true to his reputation, liked to work continuously and rapidly without interruption.[14] In keeping with NKVD policy and the overall “wet” nature of the operation, the executions were conducted at night, starting at dark and continuing until just prior to dawn. The bodies were continuously loaded onto covered flat-bed trucks through a back door in the execution chamber and trucked, twice a night, to the nearby village of Mednoye. Blokhin had arranged for a bulldozer and two NKVD drivers to dispose of bodies at an unfenced site. Each night, 24–25 trenches were dug, measuring 8 to 10 metres (26 to 33 ft) in length, to hold that night’s corpses, and each trench was covered over before dawn.[17]

      Blokhin and his team worked without pause for 10 hours each night, with Blokhin himself executing an average of one prisoner every three minutes.[2] At the end of the night, he provided vodka to all his men.[18] On 27 April 1940, Blokhin secretly received the Order of the Red Banner and a modest monthly pay premium as a reward from Stalin for his “skill and organization in the effective carrying out of special tasks”.[19][20] His tally of 7,000 shot in 28 days remains the most organised and protracted mass murder by a single individual on record, and caused him being named the Guinness World Record holder for “Most Prolific Executioner” in 2010.[2][3]

      Ya, totally equivalent.

      Sit the fuck down.

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      • sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        What the fuck are you on about?

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    • brainwashed@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      How many global soviel block deaths of malnourishments did you tally up for old boy Stalin? Do we calculate relative or absolute numbers? Do the deaths of malnutrishion of nominally socialists states today also count as being capitalisms fault?

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    • _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      So being generous we’ll go high and say 10 million

      Before the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the archival revelations, some historians estimated that the numbers killed by Stalin’s regime were 20 million or higher.

      or maybe you can “be generous” and go with the figure you quoted.

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      • sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        OK, let’s be “generous” and agree to that figure. Or twice that. It doesn’t change a thing I said, and nobody will ever find me defending Stalin, unless their lenses are crazy colored.

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• Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  My issue is the claim that such atrocities don’t happen in democratic institutions.

  But that’s the point, they don’t.

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  • flandish@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    they don’t?

    lol. have you seen how child labor works? or banana republics? or coups? or prison labor? or slavery?

    come on now. stop being a thick moron.

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    • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Why do you first support my point, and then call me a moron?

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      • flandish@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        was your point that capitalism is doing what stalin did?

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  • Sunforged@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    You sure?

    Really?

    How sure?

    Like, I could look at ICE raids and their obvious purpose of terrorizing the immigrant community, but I have a feeling you’re the type of bootlicker that thinks those actions are justified.

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    • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Compared to genocide by Stalin, ICE is peanuts.

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      • Sunforged@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Dude the US is fully funding a genocide right now. Since October 7, 2023, the U.S. has provided Israel with billions in military aid, including at least $21.7 billion in approved funding, along with tens of billions more in future arms sale commitments.

        You entire premise is so inherently flawed.

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      • flandish@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        fine. compare stalin to something else that was closer to his time than he is to us:

        American slave trade. do it. tell me stalin was worse than slavery?

        the gfy.

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• _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  My issue is the claim that such atrocities don’t happen in democratic institutions.

  well, if ML users could read, you would know that OP made no such claims.

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