Comment on YouTube deleting videos documenting Israeli human rights violations

cyborganism@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• bluemoon@piefed.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  yeet Proton, those turn over any activist to authorities and soon will sell out more broadly

  check out GDPR champions StartMail, same as StartPage, from the netherlands

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  • cyborganism@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Has that ever even happened???

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    • bluemoon@piefed.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      uh yeah just look up what Proton has been doing in face of court requests and idk remember when the CEO of Proton sucked up to Donal J. Trump?

      https://www.vice.com/en/article/protonmail-under-fire-for-sharing-clactivist-data-with-french-authorities/

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      • cyborganism@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        “Proton must comply with Swiss law,” Protonmail founder and CEO Andy Yen said on Twitter. “As soon as a crime is committed, privacy protections can be suspended and we’re required by Swiss law to answer requests from Swiss authorities.”

        It doesn’t matter what country the service is from. If they have a court order and there’s a warrant for someone’s information, they have to provide it. You think they wouldn’t do that in Germany? Canada? Finland?

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• notarobot@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  As someone who has gone to proton and back. I do not recommend it. The service is mostly OK, their android apo never delivers notifications probably because of the lack of play services, and while every client is open source and is guaranteed to be e2ee to other proton accounts, there are two huge issues with this:

  1. In my case, the people I email are all on google and Microsoft, so they will be reading my emails anyway
  2. When you communicate with non proton users the emails exchange HAVE to be plain text. So the only thing keeping proton from seeing you emails is a huge “trust me bro” that you can’t verify. There are no code or cryptographic guarantees.

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  • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Which enail provider do you recommend?

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    • cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Sally, host your own lol. I know it’s not the answer most are looking for but it’s the only viable option I see at this point.

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    • notarobot@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      None. The problem is not the provider, it’s the protocol. Proton has the problems listed before, but it is impossible for ANY provider not to have those. I’d keep using whatever you are using

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  • cyborganism@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I never had any problems with their Android apps. The notifications have always worked for me.

    And of course email is plain text and is stored on other servers when you send it. It’s always been that way. Whatever service you use it’s going to be the same problem. This isn’t Proton specific. So I don’t get your point here.

    However, whatever you receive and keep, that’s encrypted and no one can read it. And that’s the whole point of having a secure encrypted email service like Proton.

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    • notarobot@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Of course you are right. Those problems apply to Evey provider. My point is not that proton sucks. My point is that the protocol sucks and it’s not worth the hassle of switching providers. The “whatever you receive and keep is encrypted and no one can read it” is another one of those false of security kind of thing that make you relax and think you are safe, when in reality they could EASILY be copying your email somewhere else unencrypted when you send and receive. That means that you spent your time switching provider just for a “trust me bro”

      Their drive service is worth it though

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  • Successful_Try543@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    If I understand their documentation correctly, you can set up PGP for communicating with non-Proton e-mail recipients.

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    • notarobot@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yes. That is correct. I’ve sent pgp emails from my gmail to protonmail. But nobody uses pgp. So in practice you are spending all of that time and effort for basically 0 gain.

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      • Successful_Try543@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I feel you. The recipients must be willing to use encrypted communication either.

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• isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I migrated off of Proton Mail, they have no way to access your calendar from outside Proton’s apps and web services, you can’t access Proton Drive on Linux (and the workarounds never worked for me), and you need to keep running their decryptor tool if you want to use an email client other than their mail client.

  Email is inherently insecure, zero knowledge encryption is worth nothing when 99% of your emails are being sent and received in plaintext. I’m on Fastmail now.

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  • cyborganism@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Please explain to me how Fastmail is more secure if you can easily set up any client without encryption? Or am I missing something? And when Fastmail sends or receives email, isn’t it also sent in plain text because of the SMTP protocol anyway?

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    • PlexSheep@infosec.pub ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      IMAP and SMTP, the protocols mainly used for emails besides whatever weird shit Microsoft is doing, nowadays all have variants going through a TLS encrypted session like HTTPS.

      That doesn’t change the fact that email is not up to the task of modern secure communication (TLS is not end to end encryption for example, and smime and pgp are super user unfriendly and have their own weirdnesses), but makes it better at least.

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    • isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It’s not. Proton’s “security” is basically pointless and induces a huge hassle if you’d like to use anything else than the web client.

      As you said, both Proton and any other mail client send mail in plain text over SMTP unless encrypted using PGP/GPG.

      Fastmail is just a much nicer email provider IMO, and I can consume emails / calendar / files using third party clients. There’s also Tuta and other mail clients, I’m just warning you to maybe steer clear of Proton unless you intend to use Proton-specific features.

      Ideally, I’d pick an email provider with data sovereignty in Canada, but short of self-hosting (which isn’t a great idea with email), there are basically no decent options.

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      • cyborganism@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I’m already migrating all my shit to Proton and it’s fine for me, so I won’t change providers again unless something really bad happens.

        Also, data sovereignty in Canada isn’t much better than in the U.S. I’d rather have my stuff stored in a place with better privacy rights than Canada.

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  • NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I often find the need for Proton’s encrypted email to be sonewhat dubious when Proton can’t (or won’t) fight secret court orders to collect logs on users.

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    • isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Agreed, and these rarely come anyway because most of the time, the US courts can simply subpoena Google or Microsoft for access to the interlocutor’s sent and received emails, this only really occurs with Proton to Proton communication, which I have personally never done as no one I know uses Protonmail.

      Bref, better off just GPG signing and encrypting your emails and using a different provider. US courts can’t decrypt your mail more just because they subpoena’d it

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• Carrot@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I highly recommend shelling out the $12 a year for a domain to tie to your email through Proton, that way, if Proton starts to enshitify, you can change email providers without having to migrate all your accounts to a new email. I am actually going through the exact same process, and I never want to have to do it again lol.

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  • cyborganism@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Oh that’s clever!

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  • Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Domains are just useful to have anyway

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• paper_moon@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Before going all in on Proton, just make sure you’re okay with the ceo’s statements on politics. To some people its enough to not switch over, to others its unfortunate but the product is too good not to switch.

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  • cyborganism@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yes the CEO is an idiot for having said that one statement once about supporting a Trump appointed candidate and doubling down on what he said. But he didn’t donate to anyone’s campaign, he didn’t donate to any PACs or any other political organization. He doesn’t actively support Trump other than that one time. And he’s committed to protecting my privacy at all costs. On top of that, their line or services is one of the most complete next to Google.

    Honestly it’s not that big a deal compared to Google that financed Trump’s campaign and it’s CEO actually being present at his inauguration, executing his every order, and being zionist enablers and pro-genocide, doing deals with Isreal to provide all kinds of services and spreading their propaganda on their platform and erasing all evidence of said genocide.

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    • paper_moon@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I mean… I’m not defending google here, just making sure you were aware of the situation. And you are.

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