Comment on I Quit
mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
I mean, look. While it’s true that IQ tests aren’t a great measure of intelligence, it’s not like all humans are equally intelligent. We all know some people who are clearly smart and some people who are clearly dumb. And I think it’s completely expected that being smarter gives you some advantage at getting money. I don’t think anyone can reasonably deny that being smart is generally advantageous in life. This chart seems perfectly fair and reasonable to me…there is a slight correlation, moreso on the low end (how can severely mentally retarded people do most jobs or even have incomes?), and less so on the high end. It makes a mistake in talking about income rather than net worth, which is really the more pertinent thing in “being rich”. I bet we would see a much lower correlation there, because you can be born into having a high net worth. But the correlation isn’t too high, because, as everyone reasonable already suspected, being rich is almost entirely about being lucky. I don’t think this chart really has any import to the many social discussions about meritocracy or wealth or intelligence, except for maybe to disprove someone who believes that we live in a fair world where “if you’re smart and work hard you can make it”. But even then, that would rely on a misunderstanding of what the chart tells us.
hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I don’t. I thought maybe Elon musk is smart or maybe he is a good public speaker. Maybe he is charismatic or maybe he is just lying really effectively.
With 20/20 hindsight it’s good to reflect and understand it was smart to be cautious about my judgement. I will never be sure if someone is smart or dumb, because there’s so much going on I can’t possibly understand.
Even Einstein who clearly had a lot of very impactful and helpful theories and ideas I wouldn’t say is smart. I would only go so far as to say he is a great physicist.
I also disagree that being smart is generally advantageous in life. All the people who seemed smart to me were deeply depressed at some point in their life, some even still and some even went a bit further with it.
What I’m trying to say is the world is complex, and such generalizations only lead to wrong causal links.
Maybe smart don’t give you money but money helps to learn and become smart. Maybe smarts don’t give you advantages in life but an advantageous life affords you opportunities to become smarter. Maybe being smart is the wrong way to think about it and it’s all just different patterns and behaviors of thinking. Or maybe your thoughts are more profound in some circles and people who think more profound appear smarter to us.
Let’s just take a healthy dose of skepticism to such studies but also to all those “we all know it” ideas. I don’t. I’m fucking stupid but that leads to smarter decisions than the me who assumes a bunch of stuff.
mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
I feel ya, I also generally am very against “it’s just common sense!” type reasoning. But have you ever spent time with, like special education students? Like someone who will need to live with their parents forever because they can’t learn to do things like read or write? It’s nice to believe that maybe if only they had been given the right environment, they wouldn’t have those problems - it’s also just not true. Or perhaps we can take a more extremely example of someone who suffered a major brain injury. It sucks, and it’s unfair, but at the end of the day some people really are definitively less smart than others. And by that same token, those others are definitively more smart than them. Of course, once people are at a certain level, it gets a lot harder to tell, but that dynamic is still in play. Likewise, if you’ve ever had the experience of interacting with a gifted kid, it’s pretty clear that they’re smarter than others.
That’s a good distinction about intelligence being generally advantageous. That is why I said generally - it has some clear disadvantages like loneliness or a deeper awareness of the world’s problems, etc. But most of the time, being smart is advantageous, don’t you think? I mean, what is intelligence other than an ability to correctly understand reality? I do agree that sometimes having a false understanding of reality can coincidentally help you out, but knowing how things really are is certainly the superior strategy. If you think otherwise, it’s always easy to make yourself dumber and reap the rewards. I don’t mean that sarcastically or cruelly. I just mean, there’s a reason we don’t see intelligent people lobotomizing themselves to have better lives.
Agreed the chart only shows correlation and not causation in either direction.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
The core problem here is that “intelligence” as a single thing doesn’t exist, it’s like trying to measure someone’s fitness by just looking at their sprints and deadlifts. People can be good at some things and bad at some things, and even if you’re above average at all the measurable things that doesn’t really matter much if you’re an asshole who no one wants to hire onto their sports team.
IQ is fine as a mesaure of your general performance at some specific cognitive tasks, but for various reasons people basically always ignore that and just treat it like a number that magically summarizes how objectively good your brain is…
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Sorry buddy, but “Einstein wasn’t smart” just isn’t something I can take seriously.
yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Denying intellectual disparities is denying the vulnerability of people with special needs, not to mention average folks who are easily deceived, swindled, manipulated, propagandized, and parasitized by the rich and powerful every single day.
yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
You don’t know people who are clearly dumb?
The average ACT score for college bound seniors in Florida is 18. The test costs money, which means they’re trying their best. It’s childishly easy. My cat, who is illiterate, can score almost as high (answering at random). Again, the average is 18. What kind of conversations can you have with people who can’t read basic English? I’m asking sincerely, because as far as I can tell the answer is “none.” Maybe you can discuss the weather? Sports? Idk.
I want to stress that Americans, uniquely, are really weird about testing mental ability, probably because of their history of racism. Nevertheless, mental ability is a real phenomenon. Yes, high IQ doesn’t make you a good person, and it clearly has very little to do with accumulating wealth. But it does make life a hell of a lot easier.