installing anything or even doing basic tasks is often a multi hour process
pacman -S [software]
That was easy.
Comment on What’s even the appeal of Linux?
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 hours agoLinux is objectivly hard to use. Sure if you use it everyday for years and years and memorize all the commands and stuff, you can probably figure out most stuff without searching, but as someone who has only been using Linux for a few years, and is a mere amature C++ programmer, installing anything or even doing basic tasks is often a multi hour process, that requires a snack and a nap afterwards, with a maybe 50% success rate. Just adding a script to autorun at boot was something that took me a few hours and probably dozens of lines of shell. Im moving to debian soon though, which should maybe help since i dont have to deal with containers and and overlay filesystem and all that nonsense. Linux really needs to lean into UI development, simplicity, and intutitve design. I still struggle to find files in linux without links. KDE has come a long way in recent years. I can now do things like scale my screen size without hours of research. Linux will never become mainstream unless the typical user can do nearly everything without ever touching the shell. That has always been the thing that has held Linux back besides game compatability. Now that valve is finally creating a more normie friendly version of linux with game compatability and a sort of complete UI. It might actually overtake windows. Its still a massive pain in the ass compared to windows, double click an exe or msi to install your software. If i need to find a file on Windows, indont even need a search function. I can just find it in less then a minute. Linux definitly has some big flaws and bad design decisions.
Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 18 hours ago
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 17 hours ago
Alternatively yay install [software] or flatpak install [software]
dabster291@lemmy.zip 16 hours ago
Or even any of the multitude of GUI stores that exist, one of which will probably come pre-installed on your system if you’re using a just-works distro.
DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 14 hours ago
Or
yay [software]and pick out the software you want to install from a list.
Zexks@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Now youve overwritten older dependencies and three of your other programs now shit the bed.
black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 hours ago
Windows is objectively hard to use, and makes it harder to use with every release. I wasn’t saying Linux is particularly easy (though depending on the distro I’d say it’s definitely easier than Windows), but more that feeling like windows is easy to use is just being used to it.
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 hours ago
The difference is really, I dont have to look stuff up usually to change things on windows. In linux you have to do most things with obscure shell commands and arguments that i dont know.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
I find linux to usually be logical. In windows everything appears to be completely random.
It has a lot to do with familiarity, but design choices also play a part.DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 hours ago
True
DJDarren@sopuli.xyz 12 hours ago
installing anything
I’ve been using Mint and KDE Neon on two of my machines for the past year, and I still have to search for how to install an app image properly.
Its one of those things that isn’t the end of the world, and I guess there are increasing numbers of Snap/Flatpak packages. And, of course apt. And whatever application manager your distro comes with.
But some software is available either to be compiled by the user, or as an app image. And I don’t understand why that image can’t just be dropped in an application folder and run, the same way it works in macOS.
But I’m a relative noob. I assume there’s a historical reason.
kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 hours ago
No, it isn’t. Using Linux is only as hard as you want it to be. There are plenty of user-friendly choices that purposefully mimic familiar desktop environments and require little to no terminal knowledge for basic use. If you chose something like Gentoo or Arch as your first taste then that’s your fault, not the OS’s.
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 hours ago
Well im sure that’s true for most people who just browse the web and stuff, but I do many complex things with my PC. Double clicking an installer is just always easier to install software. That was the first big mistake of linux tbh. Not having a standard gui type way to install 3rd party software. App stores are cool, dont get me wrong, but its not a replacement for just double clicking a downloaded file that interacts with a standard set of tools on your PC. I know there are reasons for this, linux is only a kernel and what not. I have been using windows since idk 95 i think when i was like 6 years old. It is definitly way easier to do just about anything. That is because windows was designed to be as simple and cross compatible as possible. Xp and 7 were the best versions of windows unless you were too dumb to avoid getting malware or something. For whatever reason, most people were too dumb to avoid getting maleware because they hard no artistic sense. I could always detect the quality of the mind which made a website, and i knew bad artists were the ones who likely had bad morals, and had malware. Also personality. It was simple for me to avoid malware and i never did get it, maybe twice over like 20 years.
Windows died and so i started to use linux a few years ago. The hardest thing i ever had to do in windows was probably link libraries in C++, almost everything in linux is that hard. The people who make linux just will never understand that the average user will never want to spend hundreds of hours a year maintaining their system. 90% of people cannot even understand if a simple logical statement is true or not. Half of them can barely read. Kid these days dont even know how to use something thats not a touch screen, older people over 60% of them cant send an email without help, and these people are supposed to download xrandr for their linux machine and create a custom startup script in system d, to make their tv display correctly? Madness. I feel like i may have walked into a cult. If you guys are like Linux devs, that is extreamly cool fr, atleast to me, but you are delusional if you think linux is easier to use then windows. It has come a long way. Bazzite is the first distro that i feel comfortable recomending to normies, and i recomend it to many people who are trying to escape the trashpile that is modern windows. Learning liinux has been difficult though, maybe because i dont have tons of free time and energy anymore like when i was younger. It is coming a long way however thxs to lord gaben and his push to make linux more mainstream, so the personal PC market doesnt die completly with whatever the hell microsoft and apple are doing these days, probably trying to micromanage their users, e force moral sogma, and use nudge theory on them because the people who run most companies in America are actually dumb incels at this point.
TerHu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 hours ago
i have handed fedora kionite to a non-techie who was super happy with it, cuz it looks like windows, but most of the things you need, you can safely get via discover.
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 hours ago
Some things i can get from discover but many things i use i have to manulally install. I just dont want to deal with containers and ostree and stuff. Maybe in the future i will.
null@lemmy.nullspace.lol 14 hours ago
What niche stuff are you manually installing that somehow takes hours on Linux, and is instant and easy on Windows?
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 hours ago
Stuff like java, tetrd, local AI stuff.
TerHu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 hours ago
fair, but considering that you mentioned autoruns and such, i guess you need more specialised things anyways, so maybe kionite just isn’t for you. i don’t use it either, but for my normie friends who need nothing but a browser, office, and mby steam (in that case mby bazzite), its awesome
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 hours ago
I will probably write a script to autorun everything i have in a folder or something eventually i think.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 17 hours ago
From what I remember Mint is probably the most brain dead easy Distros you could use. Almost everything has a GUI if I remember. Its mainly a mix of what Distro/DE you use and how much you want to tinker.
black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 hours ago
Elementary and Ubuntu as well these days. Dead simple.
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 hours ago
Good to know, i havnt researched mint much, but im trying to find the most simple system so i can learn linux on a deep level. Basically the temple OS or Dos or windows XP of linux. Not simple as in UI but in file system and stuff. Debian lets me install KDE which i like so the UI side is fine. Its a bit trickier to understand overlay file systems and stuff.
Maybe half of the software I use is in the discover store. I for whatever reason end up using quite a bit of niche software. I have improved a good bit with installing from scripts and stuff. Sometimes i need to install stuff into the OS tree to get it to work and use propeitary binaries. Installing java, AI dev tools, certian versions of Python to get software to work or compile Its annoying, but im moving to debian which should help with many of these things if i can manage to get it installed.
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
Java, AI dev tools, and Python, are all not linux-specific things what so ever.
You speak as someone who thinks you know more than you do. I suggest ACTUALLY getting back yo basics, ACTUALLY learn the linux file system like its folder structure and how it treats everything like a file, and ACTUALLY learn how all the tools you want to use exist as separate entities with their own designs and philosophies.
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 hours ago
You are delusional.
MrScruff@lemmy.zip 9 hours ago
Managing multiple versions of python and other dev tooling can be made simple with something like:
mise.jdx.dev
Or
asdf-vm.com
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 16 hours ago
If you want to learn about Linux on a deeper level Mint is probably not the best choice for it, since it aims at providing a Distros for non tech literate users. For this goal I would recommend Arch Linux, since the installation an maintaining teaches you quite a bit. Main Problem is, that Arch is sometimes quite unstable. If you like to suffer to learn you can also try out Gentoo or NixOS or crea[e your own Linux with Linux from scratch.
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 hours ago
I would try arch one day except i have a job lol