Smells like intentional destruction of evidence.
Comment on Tesla withheld data, lied, and misdirected police and plaintiffs to avoid blame in Autopilot crash
danc4498@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Within about three minutes of the crash, the Model S uploaded a “collision snapshot”—video, CAN‑bus streams, EDR data, etc.—to Tesla’s servers, the “Mothership”, and received an acknowledgement. The vehicle then deleted its local copy, resulting in Tesla being the only entity having access.
Holy fucking shit. What is the purpose of deleting the data on the vehicle other than to sabotage the owner of the vehicle?
Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Criminal destruction of evidence.
Criminal withholding of evidence.
Shanedino@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
It is possible that the data is just never saved in non-volatile memory meaning that once power is lost that the values are also lost. In which case its not really deleting the information but rather just that information is just never intentionally saved.
P.S. I am not a tesla fan boy just wanted to give this tiny insight.
patatahooligan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Forensic analysis managed to retrieve this data, so it must have been stored in non-volatile memory.
kjetil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Didnt the article say the retrieved the filename and hash, thus proving the existence of the crash diagnostic snapshot. After which Tesla handed over their copy?
Or did the forensics retrieve the actual data?
patatahooligan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The article kind of fumbles the wording and creates confusion. There are, however, some passages that indicate to me that the actual data was recovered. All of the following are taking about the NAND flash memory.
The engineers quickly found that all the data was there despite Tesla’s previous claims.
…
Now, the plaintiffs had access to everything.
…
Moore was astonished by all the data found through cloning the Autopilot ECU:
“For an engineer like me, the data out of those computers was a treasure‑trove of how this crash happened.”
…
On top of all the data being so much more helpful, Moore found unallocated space and metadata for snapshot_collision_airbag‑deployment.tar’, including its SHA‑1 checksum and the exact server path.
It seems that maybe the .tar file itself was not recovered, but all the data about the crash was still there.
michaelmrose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This explanation is completely fabricated, based on nothing, and nonsense.
It is obviously critical data that nobody halfway competent would write to ram. Also video data is very large and makes no sense to store in ram.
Furthermore the article says it was deleted and they later recovered it which would not have been possible with RAM
Basically why are you pushing this drivel.
Shanedino@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If the data is temporarily stored until it is transmitted and then is not considered to be needed anymore I see no reason as to why that would need to be stored locally forever.
michaelmrose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Because it may not be possible to transmit depending on location.
michaelmrose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Perhaps most importantly although we know it was not so lost because we read the article or at least the summary if it had been it would have been a deliberate design decision to have it be so.
Your explanation doesn’t wash in reality but it also doesn’t wash even in theory.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
Hell, it could be that this is private information about the driver and the car’s probably gonna end up in a Copart auction after insurance is done with it, so in a way they’re protecting PII.
danc4498@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I doubt they’re doing a full OS wipe when an accident occurs. So PII data would still be on there.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
Just stuff you voluntarily save if the crash data is in RAM only. RAM gets autowiped.
aln@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What PII is there? It’s a fucking dash cam video, it’s not my blood results from my annual checkup.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Full address via recordings of where you live would be PII
danc4498@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Yeah, this is a good point. Also, another comment said it’s possible the data snapshot is very large, so it’s not intended to be stored locally.
Either way, if you are sending data about my car to a server, it better be easy for me to get this data if needed.
Glitterbomb@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Don’t these keep a video record of every time a squirrel gets too close to the parked car?
Another m.2 under the dash isn’t going to kill the electric vehicles battery, this isn’t an excuse.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
those are saved on external drives. That being said, they could also have it set to save something like this to the external storage if it was too large for the internal memory as well.
alvyn@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
The only thing making this nazi company its market value and all the hype is promis of self driving. The autopilot technology is the main value. If there will be proof of it is wrong, Tesla gonna loose the investors. Simply as that, fucking nazi Musk cannot allow proof that his shitty car killed peoples because of the autopilot. I recommend to search for podcast and reporting by The Guardian on this theme. I’m really looking forward to read the book Tesla files. It’s from the journalist who was contacted by Tesla whistleblower. There are thousands cases when the autopilot started to behave just “little crazy”.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
Information to be used against you and never for you.
lividweasel@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
That jumped out at me too. Giving the benefit of the doubt, it could be that this “snapshot” includes a very large amount of data that could be problematic if stored locally for longer. In reality, they probably do it this way for exactly this type of situation, so they can retain full control of the potentially-damning data.
Eheran@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
If they can transmit it, it is not a lot. It is that simple.
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Nearly all of the vehicles have 4G/5G connectivity via AT&T. This isn’t a dial up connection. They can transmit whatever the fuck they want.
amorpheus@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Still, if it’s small enough to transmit via any wireless connection, it’s small enough to keep the local copy.
Eheran@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Mate, a 1 TB micro SD costs less than 100 $. How much does a high bandwidth high/no data limit 5G connection cost and how long would that need to actually transmit that much?
What sensor data is there even supposed to be? Even at 1 millisecond resolution we are talking about megabytes.
Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Bullshit. It was saved locally. It can stay saved locally but be marked for deletion if storage gets tight. This is a solved computer science problem.
There is zero reason to delete it immediate except to cover their asses.
If I was on the jury I’d be pushing for maximum monetary penalty.
Sprocketfree@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Treble damages
hodgepodgin@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Agreed, if there was concern about the data falling into the wrong hands then there’s many different ways to secure the data (encryption, masking, hardening) besides just deleting it. Tesla’s strategy here totally foregoes any typical data retention lifecycle like you mention, which is usually to delete old data that has little to no benefit besides just adding additional risk (or if there’s no space left). Plus you have to take into account the additional consequences you take on by deleting the data locally such as not being in compliance with regulations, and potentially risking sanctions or heavy fines.
A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
That’s not “benefit of the doubt”, that’s “playing devil’s advocate”. They probably used something like this.